Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (00:16):
Hi, I'm Tony Poulos and I'm at the DSP Leaders World Forum in Windsor. This is the next version of the extra shot, and I can tell you we've had a lot of extra shots of coffee as well, so we'll be very lively in this last session for the day. I have with me today Robert Curran, who is the consulting analyst at Appledore Research. Welcome again, Robert. Mark Gilmour, chief Technology Officer at Connectivitree. Very welcome. I have very hard one to get out at this late stage of the day. And of course, Justin Paul, who is the marketing director of Open Gateway at GSMA. Justin, good to catch up again. We were talking about APIs at length in a previous session the two of you were on, and one of the things that came up in my head was why has it taken so long for the potential of APIs to be recognized? Robert, I'd like you to kick off with that.

Robert Curran, Appledore Research (01:05):
Yeah, it's a good question. I think we've had a few different goals that the network, API things over the course of telecom's history, but there's a confluence of technologies capabilities becoming available. I think it's a combination of reasons. Partly obviously the cloud is incredibly important and not incredibly available. That's on the supply side. On the demand side, you're seeing more interest in companies having an application to application layer of integration with telcos. And then on top of that, then you've got the development of networks themselves and programmable networks. So now you've got a mix of different things in play that mean okay, we can do something really interesting and really different with that. I know Justin will probably talk more about some of the cooperation required and enabling, but I'll let him talk about those things. So I think that's the answer. We're getting to a point where enough of the pieces are in place to do something really interesting.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (01:52):
Well, for Mark, the requirements are slightly different because he's a wholesale operator. What do you think about that question?

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (02:00):
It's been a function, I think of demand coming to it as well. I think operators are now, or the industry is getting to now to a point where actually we have to do it. Those things that Robert mentioned are now in place, and so it has to be done in order to maintain cost base, in order to maintain any sort of margin in that. Because in the part of the industry that I'm working in now, it has been a bit of a race to the bottom in terms of pricing. And so it's about economies as much as it is then about enabling the effective use of those services and consuming of those services.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (02:51):
Well, Justin, what does API enablement bring? What are the benefits it's going to bring operators in particular? I'll get to the enterprises later.

Justin Paul, GSMA (03:00):
Yeah, no, I think in answer to that and thinking about the previous question, it's about big fish in small ponds, and I think that's where telecom's operators have traditionally played in the API space. They've been very large. Some of them have 40, 50% market share in their own markets, but on the global stage, they're relatively small players and I think a lot of the times they've developed APIs and some of the operators have very sophisticated API based businesses, but basically the APIs to work with their network. So it's very parochial in the approach and while that can be attractive, particularly for some of the bigger operators, some of the silverbacks in the room for developers, it's not necessarily a big enough addressable market. And that's this change of mindset with the Kamara initiative and to a certain extent, the TM Forum initiative, you have a standardized set of APIs that mean if you are a developer, you develop something. Once you take that capability, you can set it to everyone. So it has a global addressable market that becomes a lot more attractive, a lot more accessible, and it makes it easier to make money from APIs.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (04:20):
And if you're a global enterprise, you don't want to be having to deal with multiple different APIs across the globe. And I'm thinking the global API situation's critical, and that came up in the conversation earlier today, our global APIs feasible. Are we getting there, Mark?

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (04:36):
I'll tackle that. So in my space, yes, and actually it was a key driver of our business plan. We needed to have some sort of global standardization or something to build from having come from the mobile environment and having the cellular world where actually having that global standardization has enabled us to have these devices that work anywhere in the world

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (05:04):
Put that into the market that I'm in now. It makes sense. I mentioned it on the panel, telecom is traditionally a regional play. You made a very good point about it's being quite parochial. That's easier for you to say than me. But ultimately, and we heard it particularly in the automobile or the vehicle killer session, that they want a global solution. In order to deliver a global solution, telcos have to work together, connected VT partners have to work together. And if we can do that using some sort of global set of standards or approaches that make sense for us all it does actually, it makes life easier for us all.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (05:53):
Yeah. A couple examples today of how APIs are generating revenues for telcos. How are they doing it and is it happening now and what's going to happen in the future? Are we going to get better at this? Well, I know it's a tough one. Oh no, come on, you jump in. Give these guys a break. They're terrified of that one.

Robert Curran, Appledore Research (06:11):
So look, I think everybody's trying to see what is the revenue opportunity, all kinds of wild numbers and then very conservative numbers. The reality is let's do something and see how it flies to some degree. There's a number of different pressure points from the industry. So there's clearly, as Mark says, and if you've heard on the panel, there's demand from certain classes of enterprise, certain verticals, we know a lot about fraud, security identity and so on. There's a requirement there. But in terms of generating real money from this, we need to kind of experiment a little bit, and that's into the different areas. There's network capability, there's network data, there's other supplementary information not to do with network APIs, but do with APIs more generally. You think even simply credit scoring, financial payment history, all that other information that telcos have, it's not related to network, but is related to things that could be material in terms of detecting fraud and so on. So it's a whole spectrum of opportunities that are all potentially monetizable in different ways. Mark.

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (07:05):
So I don't believe at all that APIs per se will be monetized, but it's the services

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (07:11):
Wash your mouth out.

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (07:12):
Yeah, I know. I know

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (07:14):
That's sacrilege In an event like this!

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (07:15):
I know it is a little bit because I actually believe that the APIs are a way to consume the services that we sell.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (07:25):
There's a benefit.

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (07:26):
And so therefore if we want to expand our reach, expand that addressable market, then you make your services easier to consume and APIs are a means to be able to do that. So I don't subscribe to this view that we'll be selling the API itself that we've developed, certainly not in the space I am. It may be slightly different in the cellular. I will take note on that, but I see them more as an enabler to consume the services that we create.

Justin Paul, GSMA (08:07):
I mean, from my point of view, I think I have to be very careful. I can't talk prices, but I think we can talk about the models and of course anything we do, there's a commercial reason for doing it. And there are typically three reasons for doing anything. An operator. One is to reduce operational costs, the second is to improve experience, and the third is to generate new revenue streams. And for a long time, that's been the holy grail and I think network APIs give that opportunity. There are a lot of numbers floating around, and

Justin Paul, GSMA (08:40):
I think there has to be a reality that if you are providing a piece of information from a network that is small and transactional, you will get a small and transactional piece of revenue. And that will be a selling an API, so location or a sim swap check, something like that. What you're seeing is moving up the value chain. If you see multiple APIs being put together, perhaps with operator data or network data, there's more value around that. And then the final stage is if you take that capability and embed it in an application, that's where the big money is because you'll be looking at a share of that revenue. So create a location, API. That's one thing. Turn that into a Rideshare app, and that's where you start to get a percentage of the revenue. And some of this is to do with the ambition. Where do you want to be as an operator? Are you down at the transaction layer or are you up at the innovation creating new services based on the APIs into your network?

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (09:51):
Robert's busting to get in. We're running out of time, but go on.

Robert Curran, Appledore Research (09:53):
I just want to say that there's the one thing that combines both of those perspectives, which is the importance of automation. APIs are not just about how you get access to the thing, it's about the whole automation process. You're not going to make money if behind your API is a person who's got to go and do something on a system. So automation and APIs, absolutely. Flip sides of the same coin...

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (10:11):
The swivel chair approach.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (10:13):
Listen you guys. This is where I'm going to disagree. I'm an old billing guy and when APIs were first mentioned, I'm thinking transaction charge. Every time an API was hit 0 cent or something like that, billing departments would've loved that. You would've got revenue. I dunno what the problem is. Anyway, thanks for being with me today and talking about APIs because at the moment it seems to be a very hot topic. Even the people talking about fraud and the requirements of APIs to help prevent this major industry fraud. Wow. Figures. Were mind boggling. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being with me.

Mark Gilmour, ConnectiviTree (10:46):
Pleasure.

Tony Poulos, TelecomTV (10:46):
That's our last extra shot for today. For all of you at home, you can have a relaxing afternoon, evening, morning in some cases if you're in Australia. Thank you for being with us tomorrow. We will be here again. We've got four or five extra shots and we'll be copied up ready for you by then. Thanks for being with us.