Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (00:07):
Hello and welcome to Barcelona for MWC 2025 where we are going to discuss mainframe modernization with our guests here at the AWS Studio, we are joined by Riki Efraim-Lederman, president Amdocs Studios at Amdocs and Namrata Sharma Mainframe Modernization Go-to market Worldwide leader, thank you for joining us.

Namrata Sharma, AWS (00:31):
Hello. Hey Charlotte, thank you for having us. Good to see you again, Riki.

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (00:35):
Same here.

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (00:36):
So first of all, what is mainframe modernization and why do we need it and why now?

Namrata Sharma, AWS (00:43):
Great question. Riki, go ahead.

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (00:45):
So there are so many, we are right talking about tech, right? So there are so many systems with telco but also with many, many industries that are still in the mainframe platforms. Many application, right? We are here talking about ai, talking about a cloud, but there are so many application still result with mainframe and modernized systems. So it's not new topic right on the table. We are talking about that for many, many years already. But why now, right? You ask why now we see so many things keep changing and mainframe stayed as it is because it's really risky and long process to move those applications that resides with so many years to a different platform. But the why not to me come with three dimension and maybe in NATA you will be able to add more. I will start with the agility, right? There are so many things happening these days with the tech that the existing system need to integrate and comply with many, many new things that are coming over and it become more and more difficult to keep up the pace and the changes and the technology that is needed.

(02:01):
So the ability and agility to do things become more and more tougher on the existing mainframe platform. And second is about the skills and the people we are talking for so many years that we have skilled people of mainframe but they are retiring because we know the young population doesn't acquire these skills. They're already in the new tech and it's unbelievable, but it's very hard to maintain those system with the current skill. I dunno if you know that only 60% of the open position in the mainframe are being fulfilled. There are many positions that it's very hard to fulfill them with the skills. And of course with that goes the cost and the ability, mainframe cost continuously increase and comparing to the alternative, right? We talk about cloud, you talk about alternative with.com, the security compliance and more and more, I dunno, namrata if you want to add more?

Namrata Sharma, AWS (03:00):
Yeah, absolutely. Great points. And to what Riki said, if we were to just look at what mainframe modernization is, it's basically two things. It's taking legacy mainframe applications and modernizing them to a modern application architecture. It can be done onto the cloud and preferably AWS, but there are some aspect of on mainframe modernization too, and then it's also taking the mainframe data and moving it to cloud. So our customers have access to these advanced tools, analytics tools that they can use to run insights. Now the big question that you asked, and Riki answered it really well, why now? The biggest reason yes costs, I mean when mainframe software vendors increase their prices, our CIOs, our customer CIOs are not happy. It's hard for them to manage opex costs. Yes, there is a severe shortage of skilled resources. I usually love to ask people, Hey, raise your hand if COBOL programming.

(04:06):
And so far nobody's ever raised a hand because it's that old, right? There's of course the security and compliance issues. These are monolithic applications that were designed and built years ago and have spread like a spider web. So they really do not comply with today's modern architecture, today's compliance InfoSec compliance requirements and so forth. But the biggest reason, like Riki said, business outcomes agility. If I cannot deploy my applications quickly, if I cannot adjust to what my competition is doing, if I cannot adjust to what my customers need, I am losing out on really coming up with the latest and greatest to stay relevant. And that's why our customers are jumping on this right now and I would say a short answer to the why.

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (05:05):
So the why is pretty clear the why, the urgency as well. Next, Riki, I was wondering if you could tell us what amoc strategy is for mainframe modernization, especially in relation to your acquisition of aad. Right.

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (05:21):
So we have AAD with Amdocs for more than a year in as AIA has an amazing set of tool of doing a code modernization. So taking an old relatively old type of mainframe code and modernize it and refactor it to the new technology and re platforms. But on top of that, doing the automated testing, making sure that everything that used to work in the past with the old code continues to work in the new code, new platform and taking the data into that. So the acquisition of a study really brought those type of tools, but with mdoc it's way broader because we in Mdoc knows to take this complex program and there is a complexity, right? All our customer, the risk of taking that you need to have something that is bigger than just doing decode modernization is really the ability to look on the application and sometime replatform and already doing an application development, modernizing the application itself.

(06:36):
On top of that, doing the overall testing, it's so much important to our customer to make sure that it's integrated and testing well with the new ecosystem. And sometimes because we are talking on relatively legacy type of application, take that into the managed services. So a stadia with those mdoc capabilities, application development, doing an overall testing, doing the overall integration and potentially do the managed services. This is a perfect match and together with the partnership that we have with AWS, so taking that of course to the cloud, that becomes an amazing appealing joint offering. So I think the picture now is so much broader and bringing in one and the value, but also this ownership of really doing the job, delivering it. And this is like we are so much known on doing that and in such a complex program, the combination tedia, MOCs and AWS becomes really appealing, the AAA of success. Indeed.

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (07:42):
What about telco customers in particular here? What challenges are there encountering with mainframe modernization and how can you help them?

Namrata Sharma, AWS (07:51):
So AWS has been doing mainframe modernization for the last three years and we've succeeded in various verticals, various industries like financial services, insurance, automotive, but the telco customers are unique. While the underlying layer for mainframe and mainframe application is pretty much the same from a telco perspective, when you look at something as simple as the O-S-S-B-S-S systems, these are essential billing systems in a telco environment running on mainframes. This is where with the advent of 5G different business models, the ability to really modernize code mainframe modernization becomes essentially important. And Amdocs being a domain leader as a services partner in the telco world really brings in that perspective of how to really detangle the spider web of mainframe applications in the entire telco system. Now we've worked with the Stadia in the past before the acquisition also, and they were one of our preferred tool provider for mainframe modernization and now Amdocs coming in providing that domain. So I have to agree with Riki, it's AWS Amdocs and Tedia, it's a great combination to help the telco customers.

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (09:22):
So do you have any success stories to share with us on this?

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (09:26):
Well, yeah, and I will not name the name of the customer, but it's a tier one customer from North America, very significant customer of ours and AWS and they are working with us to the journey of modernizing their mainframe application. And it's huge and it's exactly emphasized everything that I said that with tedia, OC and IWS, it's like the bigger picture because it's not only about migrating hundred of application, it's about taking the application, modernize the application itself, of course doing the end-to-end integration and testing and taking that to the managed services. And of course it goes to AWS as a cloud and it's this joint effort that really enable this customer of ours and AWS to really say, okay, I'm going into this journey of modernizing hundreds of application and taking them to the cloud. By the way, they started this journey with just few hundred of application and now they want to accelerate and move many more. So it's really an important story for many telco like that that now can really see this as a use case and go and modernize the existing mainframe platform.

Namrata Sharma, AWS (10:52):
Then during this journey, all the good work that Amdocs has been doing, the customer is also seeing the value of these applications on the cloud as they're deploying newer billing models, near charging models and so forth. So it's been a great success story. We can't wait for it to be a public reference. So we can actually share the name,

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (11:13):
No conversation here at MWC without mentioning Gen AI in particular. So what role do you see gen AI playing in mainframe modernization? How will you harness its mighty power?

Namrata Sharma, AWS (11:27):
Gen AI is the best thing that happens in sliced bread for mainframe modernization. That's how I like to put it. Mainframe modernization takes a long time because you have to know these are resilient systems that have been in our customers data centers for generations. And in telco every decade is a multiple generations. Genai really comes in and reduces that entire mainframe modernization phase from years to months, from months to days, and with the launch of A WSQ for mainframe transform, we have proven this with our customers using this a Gentech AI framework where all the customers have to do is put their big picture goals and genai really through the phases, helps them analyze document, decompose plan, and finally refactor with either an in-house solution or a stadia

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (12:30):
For MOCs as well. Looking on gen AI and having it embedded in the processes from the discovery up until the validation of the system that really goes well in the cloud in the re-platform architecture like Gen AI can reduce time as NATA said, but also reduce the risk because doing a mainframe modernization, really it's about the risk, right? This is why for so many years it didn't change, and the ability to use more and more gen AI into that enable those two, reducing the time, but also reducing the risk and making sure that it will work well. So just like as an example, okay, I will start from the end from testing that it's so important for our customer to see that the system continue and function as they need to. So the ability to do so many things now with gene AI and prove that the testing is really, you test exactly the same things as the past is one, but of course everything around modernizing the platform and the code, there are so many gene ai, amazing gene AI capabilities that we are already applying into the tool to enable doing it really faster and more reliable.

(13:45):
So it's an amazing thing to this domain that is really risk averse, right? Making sure that we do it right and do not impact the business.

Namrata Sharma, AWS (13:55):
Yeah, I want to add to that here. So we've had customers that started mainframe modernization a few years ago, but they were doing it in stages. Let me modernize 20 applications this year. I'll do 20 more. But what they realized was that the mainframe usage was not coming down. With gen AI coming, especially Q4 mainframe transform, customers can reimagine their entire mainframe modernization journey. So they can say, listen, over the course of next five years, I want to change my mainframe landscape, and this is where genai comes in and gives them a very prescriptive path to do that, where they're actually seeing their mainframe utilization reduce their modernized applications, really providing those business outcomes, which was the reason why they signed up for it the first time around.

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (14:51):
So to wrap up, what's key here when it comes to mainframe modernization and maybe, what's the key word?

Namrata Sharma, AWS (14:57):
I would say partnership. Using the right cloud and the right execution partner

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (15:03):
And doing it

Namrata Sharma, AWS (15:04):
Together.

Riki Efraim-Lederman, Amdocs (15:04):
Fully agree. I think this is the key, the partnership to really reduce the risk coming with mainframe modernization.

Charlotte Kan, TelecomTV (15:14):
Well, Riki and Namrata, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us here at MWC 2025.