Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (00:05):
So we're in Copenhagen at DTW Ignite 2026, and we're going to talk about business models rather than technology now, which is a very nice change. So I'm here with Sandeep Arora. He is head of global sales at Rakuten Symphony. Sandeep, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (00:24):
Thank you.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (00:24):
Now, Rakuten Symphony has just published a report, Telecom Growth 2026: Choosing the Right Business Model for the Next Decade. Very thought-provoking report, and it suggests that telecom has reached a saturation point. What does this growth reset really mean for operators around the world?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (00:47):
We believe that over years, the telecom vertical have been challenged multiple times. It's not the first time we are getting challenged on our revenue growth. It's not the first time we are being challenged as a utility company. It's not the first time we are being challenged that will we be able to take it forward on our where we want to be in our North Star business architecture. It's very important to look for us where we want to be in next three to five years as a business architecture for any MNOs or any vertical which are working in this part of the world.

(01:25):
And do you want to be in a utility company, like typical supply of electricity, supply of connectivity, or you want to really drive the business very differently approach where we have position in this industry report? I personally believe, and the way it resonates with Rakuten, the foundation are three specific areas which we personally very strongly believe in. Number one is how do you take our customers? Are they subscribers or are they lifetime members for us? And that's very different. We have always taken our customers as lifetime membership. To being a member than just a customer. For looking at lifetime value, LTV, versus looking at ARPU. So that's a very important, significant part of how you approach to your customers.

(02:19):
And we believe that there are two big assets for any MNOs. One is the spectrum, and the second goldmine is the data, which we all talk about. And we have been lot of posturing and lot of discussion have been going on. But how do you get the maximum monetisation from data is a very critical part. And that's why disaggregation is important. You don't want monolithic black boxes to manage everything of your thing. You want to see the data when it comes out, how do you want to massage it, what do you want to trigger with it, and how do you drive the membership with the data part. Which just connects to the first part that you get the data for your customers, and how do you make them members with the data you get from that.

(03:01):
Which comes to the last part of our hypothesis is while we bring about that autonomous network, which is the theme of this TM Forum this time around, and you see the buzz around it. Yes, it's at the horizon, but what does it entail to take those members and data to provide an autonomous network to you? So while we talk about agentic AI and how do you create that for a revenue growth then of operational efficiency and customer experience, that's how we look at these three things.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (03:37):
That sounds like the ecosystem play that Rakuten Mobile has in Japan, and that's one of the three strategic paths, models that the report suggests. There's the ecosystem play, there's the utility play, and there's the platform approach. How should operators go around deciding which is the best one for them?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (04:01):
All these data on all these points, all these reports can be needs to put in your contextual form where you are right now in a MNO. And how do you want to take the business forward? Our part to the platform play is once you have this and that's the disaggregation, the technology part which we are bringing on the table is how do you get this platform play and drive membership along the way while you're building autonomous network while disaggregating and getting the data out of them and building those out for you. So for us, this is more towards looking as a platform, a network as a platform, and RAN as an application over it, and driving that overall cost of equation and the operational cost efficiencies with that part.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (04:50):
So it's basically a case of where the operator is now, what kind of strengths they see in their business now, but it needs to evolve, right?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (04:57):
Yes.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (04:57):
They need to think differently.

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (04:59):
Yes. And that's where the business architecture is very critical for them to understand that what are the services, what are the segments of customer they are focusing on? Which are the services we are looking at? What are requirements from a membership perspective? And how can you connect each of the service together with which we call as a point platform system, and able to bring those members again and again for the share of the services which they are going outside of your bouquet of services.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (05:31):
Now, the report suggests that currently telcos, the mobile network operators, are measuring the wrong things. That optimising for ARPU and churn in a saturated market drives investment in the wrong direction, and that the shift has to be towards metrics like LTV, GMS, cross-use. How central was changing what you measure to getting things to work in Rakuten Mobile?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (06:03):
For us, as I mentioned, the first paradigm of our discussion is look our customers as a member. It's not just we are providing one service of connectivity. We are providing them a bouquet of services across those things.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (06:18):
And ARPU isn't relevant there, no?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (06:20):
ARPU is relevant. It's part of the overall revenue part, but is it 70% of your overall subscription which you provide to them, or is it 80%? Is it 90%? So you measure yourself and ARPU as part of your overall subscription to them. The critical thing where you need to understand is that how do you integrate the other systems, be it on internet services, be it on commerce services, be it on any other services which you are going to integrate on your ecosystem, and able to provide your customers go around making him maximise his wallet share on your services. And what is his motivation to trigger those, to buy those from you instead of going out. I think that's why the centrepiece of that is the data. And the data is a goldmine because you know that what is he going to buy tomorrow? What is he searching for?

(07:15):
Where is he planning to go on leave? Where is he planning to buy a new car? Where is he planning to buy his insurance? Where is he planning to buy his retail? You have this data. Your MNO data has much more than any Google or any Amazon has that. So how can you leverage that data, in regulation with the GDPR, and able to use that data, drive those services for him, and give him the privilege and the certainty of those ecosystem services so that he's able to get to those services faster than anyone else can provide. So how do you monetise this across the different ecosystem and provide the cost of acquisition less than anyone else will be the key part to it.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (07:58):
Now, there's a lot of talk about AI at the show in lots of different ways. There's also concern about the role that AI might ultimately play in disintermediating operators. And the Rakuten report shows that AI actually can simplify advantages that have already been established. What does it take to get to a place where AI hypercharges what is working right now versus posing a threat?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (08:27):
So I know there's a lot about AI, agentic AI, and how much agents will be able to solve it, how can you manage a multi-agent, how can you do a conflict management between agents and human. All those issues are going to come over time. But I think the foundation of that, just going back, would be your data, because the quality of the data will define how strong your AI agents and how your AI is trying to work out. And that's why what we have is something which we call as a common data platform, which just brings all the, curates the data together from multiple sources, bring it together, understands what's the customers trying to do, and able to use that data for each of the requirements to trigger. Now, if there is an experience issue he's providing, how can I use that data which has been curated, use an agent for it, and able to solve this problem for him, which are here and now, instead of solving a problem over time for him.

(09:24):
So for us, AI is important and we need to be very clear about what is the outcome he's trying to solve. Is he trying to solve us operational efficiency? Is he trying to solve customer experience? Or can we use him for revenue growth? What we have seen over time is that and we have been able to leverage is how agentic AI and AI able to drive revenue growth for us instead of driving just operational efficiencies for us. And that's been a very big shift and a very big important point for us.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (09:55):
And then finally, and this is I guess a key question for all operators, how should telco leaders prioritise what they're doing in terms of their business strategies and cases in the next two to three years to remain competitive?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (10:11):
You need to be very careful about what is your niche in the market, number one. Very clearly able to understand that, and how you're able to have that as a multiplier effect with the larger part of the ecosystem and part of your customer with the segment which he's approaching towards. So for us, this customer segmentation, the ecosystem, and the membership is a very important competitive differentiator, which we are able to drive that. And you can understand that as subscriber for us, more than 20% is non-connectivity basis. And we see that as a multiplier effect, not only towards the connectivity which we are trying to grow with our ARPU part, which is the connectivity ARPU, but also on the ecosystem services and the ecosystem growth for it. So the net of it is understand where they want to be, where are the areas which they want to grow, and pull them along with their customers looking for out the end of the day. I think focus on the customer, technology will follow the game.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (10:54):
And focus on the existing customers. That seemed to be a message from the report, that you already have a large customer base. Focus on those rather than chasing new ones?

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (11:17):
Yes. Our belief is if you can go more for a horizontal growth than for a vertical new customer, I think that will give you much more efficiencies as well as benefit because they are your customers. Now, how do you make them members is for you to make them happen.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (11:33):
Excellent. Well, Sandeep, great to talk to you. Thanks very much for joining us, and enjoy the rest of the show here in Copenhagen.

Sandeep Arora, Rakuten Symphony (11:39):
Thank you very much. Pleasure.