Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (00:05):
We are a future network 2024 in London. I'm here with Mark Duesener. He is EVP of Mobile Networks and Services at Swisscom. Mark, thanks so much for joining us today for giving us your time. Good to see you.

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (00:17):
Thanks for everyone.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (00:20):
Let's start with finding out about your 5G progress and your 5G strategy. Where are you with your 5G rollout right now?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (00:29):
So on 5G, let's say the radio part of it. Right. We've been pretty fast once we started in 2019. So right now we have on spectrum sharing more than 99% population coverage outdoor. And on the 5G plus, so to say, on the 3.6 MEGAHERZ gigahertz, we have more than 80% population coverage. Okay.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (00:53):
Alright. So that's a really good reach. What's your standalone strategy? Have you started that yet?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (01:01):
No. When I joined we had a debate whether we want to be first in Europe. Again with standalone, we decided against it mainly for two reasons. First of all, we didn't see a demand from a customer perspective back then, and secondly, we noticed that this is a unique chance of something like a greenfield deployment, implementing the first time cloud native functions, network functions, and therefore using that time to really change the way of working the way of operations and applying cloud native principles and therefore we on purpose took quite some time to rebuild our ourself.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (01:39):
Oh,

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (01:40):
Okay.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (01:40):
So you are basically in a embracing cloud native strategy at the moment? Yes. How's that going? I mean that impacts the skills and the staffing and just the way you think about the way you operate networks.

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (01:56):
It really dramatically and fundamentally changes the way of working. So we started our transformation without calling it transformation first. We started with a big skilling problem, really about skilling, really about applying, redefining the roles that we have. Instead of you need to know three HP standard X, Y, Z, you need to be able to code Python, you have to understand cloud native principles. So really redefining the skillset that are necessary for the future. That was the starting point. And then really on the journey, understanding that we get rid of CLI. So really let's say managing the workload directly, but orchestrating it. And that is a fundamental change. It requires obviously, which we luckily started beforehand a change. So a classical plan, build, run doesn't really work in a cloud native environment. It needs to be a DevOps, the truth, and we have that, but we were still in its infancy and we now get further down the road. We're not done, we're not finished. And I think we'll never be, a transformation will never stop.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (03:10):
But you've started the journey and that's a good place to be going down that road. Now, how does that kind of process impact what you are able to do, what you are able to offer as services and functionalities? I mean, there's a lot of talk right now about exposing network APIs and developing telco as a platform or network as a service capability. Is that something that Swisscom is looking at or starting to use as well?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (03:43):
We're definitely looking at that, and I'm a strong believer in we should sell what we use. So it's really drink our own champagne, therefore adhering to that principles that we access platforms via APIs. So if we create new features, new product features, we try to aim for using APIs instead of integrating it into core, enabling better lifecycle, faster speed of developing new services on top. So for example, on that one, I think it was now one and a half or nearly two years ago, I split my mobile network team and those developing services like mobile private networks became a new team. And the mobile network itself, so the core platform, voice platforms, access, transport, became the old team, the old in the sense of they're running platforms with a much longer lifetime. Whereas services is about innovation, is about testing, is about try out fast, fail fast, and this is what we aim for. And then we applied Conway's law. So build an organization like the architecture should be alike. And on that journey we are right

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (05:04):
Now. Now what about Swiss comm's relationship with the public cloud companies? To what extent are you working with the AWS's Google Cloud platform, Microsoft Azure? What role do they play in your strategy?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (05:21):
I think it was roughly three years ago when we decided that we want to engage in a strategic partnerships with one of them, and we decided for AWS. So from then onwards, we started our joint journey. And I think I always like to emphasize working with the hyperscale is not about just changing an infrastructure to run services applications for top. That is really in changing the way working once again. And secondly, tapping into an innovation ecosystem. I think the innovation ecosystem of the IT network and whatever industry in the past have been the hyperscalers and everything around that. And therefore I think it's a must have to be part of that ecosystem. And therefore we started this strategic initiative and a partnership and we're embracing it right now.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (06:17):
How is that manifesting itself in the way that you are developing your operations? Are you running analytics with AWS? Are you shifting OSS and BSS functions onto AWS platform? Is any of that happening?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (06:36):
That is our strategy and we started that strategy. So we started with the basic fundamentals. So we early on or as a prerequisite decided we will not do a lift and shift that every application that goes onto public cloud will have to be redesigned to really make use of the cloud native principles. And the same applied on data. So we said, yes, the data growth is immense. We don't want to invest in a team managing infrastructure, a team minutes in tools where let's say all of that is there as a service and therefore our strategy is to go there. But we looked into how do we deal with compliance, how do we deal with data ity and really implemented that. So not only as let's say a set of rules or a set of governance, but really implemented the governance into truit.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (07:39):
And where are you in this kind of evolution of OSS and BSS? Is this something that you are working with your vendor partners now on evolving the tools that you need and that you need to evolve?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (07:56):
We are, and it's a mixture, right? It's partially the vendors, it's partially in-house, for example, looking to five Gs a. So our first big, let's say large scale deployment of cloud network punches the orchestration of it. We didn't find anything on the market that suits our needs. So we started to develop it on our own based on source tools that were available. And in other cases, yes, we embrace tools from the hyperscalers and others to really make use of the new capabilities and changing the working mode, the operational model.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (08:37):
So has this really broadened the scope of tools and platforms and partners that you can work with now as opposed to previously? In terms of the management and the BSS capability?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (08:52):
I think it is not a quick run. It's not a sprint. It's more, maybe not, hopefully not a marathon, but definitely a longer haul. But I strongly believe this change of environment and mainly the change of the ecosystem will lead to a more heterogeneous vendor landscape. Yes. And therefore we need to be prepared, right? We need to have different skills in order to manage that.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (09:22):
Well, it sounds like you are laying the right foundations to be able to enable that rather than going the other way round. So finally, in terms of where Swisscom is right now, and given what you've said, what do you need most from the vendor community that would help you right now? What can they bring to your table that would help to make you accelerate your strategy in a positive way?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (09:53):
I think this journey that I've laid out roughly sketched isn't this Swisscom journey. This is an industry journey and means on that journey we will make mistakes, we will fail, but we need to walk along jointly. We need to explore jointly, we need to fail jointly with our peers as well as jointly with our vendors. It doesn't serve as if someone is, let's say the lonely bull that will not survive, but we need to move and that will disrupt business models and we create new ones. Even that is something we need you to drive.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (10:37):
And do you feel that that's more possible now than it might've been five years ago? Do you get a sense of there's a greater sharing of knowledge and insight and greater collaboration within the community these days?

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (10:52):
Definitely. I think we already learned quite a bit. I mean, on the journey that I described, for example, on the orchestration part, we deliberately took a break of, I think it was eight months, because we saw, okay, in a certain aspect there's so many movements in the industry, let's wait to consolidate. And once we saw a consolidation happening, we moved on again. And I think it's not about technology. Technology is there, we could exploit it today. It's about us, it's about people. We need to get accustomed to it, we need to understand it before we can embrace it. And that takes time. But I believe taking the time really makes that more sustainable than Russia. Well Mark,

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (11:45):
Thanks so much for joining us today. Great to hear about what Swisscom is doing and look forward to chatting with you again in the future.

Mark Duesener, Swisscom (11:52):
We both thank you.