Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (00:05):
We are in London for future net world 2025. I'm here with Benji Coetzee. She is the chief strategy and growth officer at KPN. So Benji, thanks very much for joining us. Now, growth officer, that's quite a burden I imagine to have because growth in the telecom sector, it's kind of hard to find sometimes. So can you tell us about your role and where you think the growth can come from in the near future for KPN?

Benji Coetzee, KPN (00:30):
Yeah. Well, first of all, I think growth is the most fundamentally beautiful word that they could have put on my title. And of course it's just a title, and so you actually deliver on it and it's a virtue of a team and a belief and a mindset and a culture shift. And the word shift is the shift in the word from strategy, direction, transformation, innovation to growth was a very calculates one as well. And why is that? Because growth is not only on the revenue side, growth is also on the operational saving side. So the margin relief that you can create. So if you say a strategy is creating value and growth and value, that could be in multiple ways, then you're a value engineer and using strategy, tactics and choices to get there. And technologies are a means. Technologies change. Formats change, whether it be from copper, then into fiber. We used to be monolithic to now all distributed and decentralized. Those are all methods and ways, but where's the growth going to come from? And this is a question that most struggle with, but I actually do not.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (01:48):
Great

Benji Coetzee, KPN (01:50):
Because it's a mindset. It's seeing the opportunity in everything and every problem. So if the team comes with, we have a constrained CapEx portfolio now, what choices are we not making? Where is the opportunity to flip a coin twice? Where is the partner model? Do we maybe outsource something? Do we maybe collaborate differently? How do we bring that cost of capital down? Should it be a CapEx euro? Should it be an oex euro? If it's an oex euro, how have we optimized that? So it really depends on which problem you're trying to solve. And if the ultimate is always create value for your shareholders, your stakeholders, your customers, it kind of helps you rethink a lot because growth can come in any format and also goes back a bit to the word of the definition of innovation.

(02:38):
So when someone's offers to me, would you like to be part of an innovation day? No, no print full, not interested. But that's where the growth is going to come from. And I say no, but what do you mean by innovation? Is innovation change in process? Is it change in product platform proposition, profits? And when is it innovation? Is it changed by 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 30%? Because what is truly innovative is truly transformative. And there the word has also been diluted in telco action. All industries maybe by the consultants. And I can say that because an ex consultant, because transformation has this huge weight that it carries. But then when you look at some business cases, oh, you might save not even 50 basis points. You're like, that's not transformative, or okay, I'm going to a

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (03:34):
Different way to flatline,

Benji Coetzee, KPN (03:35):
A different way to flatline. However, it is very transformative if you say, I'm going to work completely decentralized with pockets of data in the cloud, yeah, that's a very transformative way of working. But it might not have any financial impact, positive or negative, but it makes us more effective and efficient. So the later impact is going to be valuable or we have to do it anyway if we don't. We used to get stuck in the 1920s a little bit. Like upgrading your network from copper to fiber is a true transformation, but it's also just legacy management because you weren't able to service or you will not be able to service customers the way that they need to be serviced if you remained on your old legacy. So you kind of had to shift. But it's a completely transformational journey because how you fulfill everything end to end from the technology, the customer engagement to the solutions to the monetization is completely different to what you would do on your old copper network.

(04:36):
Also what your shareholders expect because now all of a sudden you've pumped billions into new infrastructure, which you had to do anyway to service customers. But the cost of capital has changed now, especially even more now with the geopolitical changes. Unless you've been smart in how you do it, and we are a safe haven as telcos, thank God right now. But I think it is how you look at it, how you frame it, what is your definition of growth, innovation, transformation, how do you hook the value to that and what is the cost to that? And depending on which telco or which technology provider or partner or startup, you think differently about that. And I think if you have a mindset of there is growth to be hacked here, be it in a problem or be it in a solution, the whole mindset changes. And that's I think, exciting. And if it's fundamental in value, which is euros or dollars or pounds at the end of the day, then you're good to go.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (05:35):
Okay. Now one of the potential ways, or one of the hopes for gaining new growth in the sector was talked about yesterday in terms of a shift in mindset about looking at services and taking it from the user perspective and not just creating services and marketing the hell out of them and hoping that people buy them, which of course is really what's happened up to now. Do you think that there is a change in mindset in the industry about, okay, if we thought about what the customers actually needed and delivered that, then things might be better all round in terms of revenues and customer experience and customer retention, all those great KPIs?

Benji Coetzee, KPN (06:19):
I would say that telcos are not known for very creative outside in thinking and more always inside out. Push, push, push, build the pipes, push the data that customers will come. They don't even know what they want or need yet. However, there is definitely a fundamental change happening in certain parts of the telco industry. And that is, I believe two parts are heavily to be appreciated for that. The first part is that the partners that we work with or the software companies that we work with or the startups, et cetera, are moving so fast and they're making it so front of mind of a consumer, at least. For example, everyone is using chat, GPT, almost everybody. Everybody has higher expectations of their data requirements. Corona even played a big role. I have to have a steady connection even though I might not need more than 400 mega bucks per second, but I want one gig, great marketing.

(07:25):
So by virtue of the customer themselves becoming so well educated, it's put telcos in a place where they have to be more outside in than inside out. But you have three layers. You have the network layer, which is the pure play infrastructure, good quality, strong quality, future proof, et cetera, steady, secure, all those really sexy words. And then you have the platforms on top. And there I think we still have a lot of work to do to clean up the legacy even in the platforms. Not even in the network, but in the platforms to make it more orchestrated, to make it more standardized, to make it more applicable for both software developers but also for customers that solve. And then you have the actual services there. So what do we expose on those platforms and do the customers actually want it? Are they willing to pay for it

(08:14):
Or are we doing it as another churn prevention tactic? Because if I see one more business case about churn prevention that doesn't actually deliver its expected benefit, we can't track it. Move aside. No. So you have to think along with customers. And I think you see a lot of the companies also creating their own UX teams and CX teams and customer experience teams and working with agencies. And the role of the telco is becoming a lot more broad because the customer expectation of the telco is becoming a lot more broad, be it the consumer or the business partner, because we are supposed to be coming a little bit more of just the data provider. We also need to make sure it's secure. We also need to help when there's a cyber attack. We also need to ensure the sovereign cloud evolution because of the geopolitical, because we have fundamental critical assets. And it's your just like you need water, you need data.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (09:10):
And the telcos are still trusted?

Benji Coetzee, KPN (09:12):
Which we should be. And we are because we have such strict governance and controls in place. So we also are natural agents for the innovation and change of society. But it all comes also at a cost. And hopefully customers and governments also recognize that because we are not, well, we're no longer state owned, we are not state supported. We are a publicly I listed company. We have a responsibility and fiduciary duty to the capital providers that run our company and therefore we run it in such a way that it is profitable and it's sustainable, it is ethical it, et cetera, et cetera. And I think there the consumer also needs to understand that it's not just about a price to the bottom right? We've commoditized ourselves so much already. Look at the 5G unlimited plans, all of that we commoditized ourselves where actually I would like to go back into pay for what you need, pay for what you get model. And hopefully the customer also sees that that's also good enough for them. Because from this huge consumption, all you can eat model is not sustainable for any of

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (10:23):
Yes.

Benji Coetzee, KPN (10:24):
Not for the consumer and also not for us.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (10:27):
Well, customers might like the sound of that kind of flexibility, especially if they're getting the specific services that they like. But marrying up those two things, it's going to be tough. Yet another challenge for the industry,

Benji Coetzee, KPN (10:42):
But interesting business models are arriving. So you can think about the marketplace aggregators that are not only reselling connectivity services but are reselling customer services that they'd like from payments to how you go to your fitness center, to how you use a taxi to all, even the perplexities. So those platforms are actually really great extensions of your own Salesforce if you see it that way.

(11:12):
But you need to have that mindset that they're an extension of your Salesforce and that you also get your fair share in return. But how do you do that and how do you optimize and monitor that? And how do you make sure that you do it at the least possible cost exposure? And then you get back to your standardization of your platforms, your protocols, your network, your, so it's all interlinked. So if you can see the beautiful map that's in front of you and say, let's go exploring, I think you're good to go in this industry.

Ray Le Maistre, TelecomTV (11:38):
And it is a beautiful map and I hope that more companies are able to make more of it as well and build these new services that customers really want in the future. So Benji, great to talk to you. Thanks very much for your time and hope to catch up with you in your future. Thank you very much.

Benji Coetzee, KPN (11:56):
Absolutely. I'll still be around.