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Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (00:10):
The dust in here, phew we need a good sweep up. Hello and welcome to The After Show, the final program in this year's Spotlight on 5G series. I'm Guy Daniels, and in today's show we are going to be discussing this year's MWC event in Barcelona. Now we covered the news with our daily editions of the slice, and if you haven't watched them all yet, then please do so. You'll find all the links in the text below this video. Well, I'm delighted to say that joining me on the program today are Ahmed Hafez, who is VP Technology Strategy at Deutsche Telekom. Phil Mottram, who is EVP and GM with HPE Aruba Networking, Shujaur Mufti, who is Senior Manager Global Partner Solutions Telco at Red Hat. And Sanjay Kaul, who is Chief Revenue Officer for Circles. Hello everyone. Really good to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.
(01:09):
Now we're going to work through some of the more identifiable trends from MWC 25, but first of all, let's have a lightning TLDR round. Let's have go into the real meat of this in a short space of time. I'm going to ask each of you in turn for your quick summary of the event in no more than 15 seconds please. So just your summary. So I'm going to start off, I mean to me it felt like this was the industry catching its breath a bit, taking stock. There were no real shocks or surprises. It was, dare I say, a little bit safe and perhaps just a little less hype than the previous year. But I'm interested to know what you think. So let's start with Ahmed. What are your overall impressions?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (01:56):
I mean the overall impressions I had with the event were pretty positive. So we see also the attendees, we see significant amounts of attendees coming out from the outside of the industry, so I was delighted to see that. And also seeing Agentic AI and AI everywhere, which is really an inflection point for the industry going forward. So for me, very positive and looking forward for how do we utilize the capabilities that have been shown there.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (02:20):
Great. Thanks Ahmed. Yes, indeed. Numbers were very positive this year, weren't they? And it is the year of Agentic AI. Phil, what about you?
Phil Mottram, HPE (02:27):
Yeah, look, I think it was a very busy show, so that was good news for me. I think it was back to business, if that makes sense. So I think some of the previous shows have been very technology orientated, be it 4g, 5g, this was a bit more about how can we use technology to either make money or save money. So I think it was back to business, how can we use technology to save money or make money?
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (02:52):
Yeah, good point. Absolutely. Phil, back to basics and back to what's really important, Shujaur, let's come across to you next.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (02:58):
Yeah, I'll echo that as well. I think for me, MWC continue to lead the telecom industry, bringing in the mobile operators, the technology partners, the enterprise ecosystem in order to accelerate the 5G 5G advanced evolution into 6G. This year was pretty high on the integration of AI across the whole telco networks. I think that was pretty interesting to see how it is going to shape in the next few years.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (03:24):
Yeah, it certainly will be and certainly the show to be at, isn't it? And Sanjay, let's come across to you now.
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (03:30):
No, I mean few things were said already as AI was everywhere. Genetech ai, I mean 5G monetization, not as much as the previously, but still everybody talking about how to get bottom line. I also saw many players talking about becoming TechCo and I think that was really, really a bit different than the previous years. I think we've been hearing about 5G and 5G monetization, but this time it was telco and that's the true journey towards becoming technos or TechCos in the industry and that was great.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (04:12):
Excellent. Thanks Sanjay. Well thanks everyone and it's a show that it means a lot to different people. Everyone gets something different out of that show. It's so big. Well, we are going to look in a little more detail at some of the major trends that we identified here at telecom tv, some of the major trends of the show. And we're going to start with 5G monetization and the move to 5G standalone. Now from our perspective, we thought there was a bit more emphasis on this year and the industry really needs it, but I'd like to know what you think as well, Phil. Can we maybe come across to you first for your perspective and your angle of 5G?
Phil Mottram, HPE (04:50):
Yeah, sure. So I mean I work for HPE and I run the Aruba division. Within the Aruba division we have wifi and we have private 5G capabilities as well. So a lot of the conversations that we had with the operators were around how could they use private 5G and deliver more of a solution to their customers either using the operator spectrum or in some countries obviously the government is providing a free spectrum, but there seems to be a lot of interest around monetization of private 5G in particular sectors. And we're looking for use cases where either speed is important or large outdoor spaces. So lots of interesting case studies around warehouses, ports, agriculture, manufacturing, so some real vertical use cases for private 5G. And I say a lot of interest from operators about how they could use that technology to monetize their spectrum more.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (05:50):
Great. That's good to hear Phil, thanks very much for that. And Shujaur we'll come across to you now.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (05:57):
Yeah, I think from my perspective 5GSA is the key in order to set the pace for 5G monetization, I know we are having some challenges with the overall monetization story, but I feel that throughout the effort GSA underscored complete 5G efforts at the event which actually helps in accelerating 5G SA adoption in the industry. And I think from Red Hat perspective, looking into a common telco cloud which is a uniform and ubiquitous across multiple connectivity streams, which is able to provide this open and flexible standards and capabilities in order to absorb this additional network APIs additional capabilities with integration of a p, I think all of that architecture is going to set the pace for 5G monetization. I think the first really the key is the adoption of 5G SA in the macro network and looking into ways how to make the architecture open and flexible in order to help reap the benefits of 5G monetization.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (06:59):
Yeah, absolutely. And this is something we as an industry really, really need to get to grips with. Ahmed, let's come across to you. What were you seeing and hearing about 5G monetization and standalone at the event this year?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (07:11):
It's quite interesting, but I would agree with Phil actually this year is not as much as last year. So we're still having of course 5G monetization discussions but not as intense as last time. So nevertheless, I want actually to take a step back and say that the 5G monetization is not limited to B2B. So there is monetization happening already from consumers. So in Deutsche Telekom we see that there's a lot of value coming and revenues coming from 5G already despite the fact we see and we understand and recognize there is a huge potential for B2B, but this does not mean that 5G is only for B2B, it's actually far beyond that. So hence we see the potential coming from various things we worked on slicing. So the live video production we did with RTL for instance and having available slices for this type of services is at least one example of services that could be used for 5G SA for enterprise customers as well.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (08:09):
Yeah, thanks very much and we're going to come on to services in just a moment, but this is why we have this show getting your views and what you thought was important and what you saw often differs from what we see. It is fascinating to sort of step back now after a week's gone by, right second trend then that we're going to talk about enterprise and vertical markets. But before we do, let's watch a couple of brief clips from our MWC interviews, which were too late to be included in the daily slice.
Kerry Small, BT Business (08:40):
We are seeing a new wave coming through and for us we always start with what is the outcome, what's the problem the customer's looking to solve? It's easy to talk technology connectivity is the product, but it's not the story. The story is what do you want to change in your business? And we spend a lot of time with customers really forcing that conversation saying let's not look at a technology solution, let's look at an outcome to solve
Sanjiv Gossain, Verizon Business (09:02):
Here in emea it's more about private 5G networks and for us we are not talking as much about the technology anymore. Naturally it's secure, low latency, et cetera. But what we are talking about to our customers now is about the use cases. How do I get more connected workers? Can I use 5G to improve worker safety perhaps in an outdoor environment, can I use it for autonomous vehicles and robots and things for picking and shipping, et cetera. Those are the kinds of examples that we're really, really talking to customers about, which is what's the impact of it rather than this is a cool technology, let's try and figure out how to use it.
Maxime Flament, 5GAA (09:42):
So the direct component of the 3G PPP standards for automotive is really putting together the vehicles to vehicle search, having this direct component of communication. There is a chicken and egg problem in terms of how to implement this and who are the first implementers. And in this case the push is not done by the mobile network operators, but the push has to be done by the vehicle manufacturers. And so we are expecting in different parts of the world this implementation being done. It takes its time but the adoption has to come from the vacuum manufacturer.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (10:22):
Yeah, interesting comments there from BT and Verizon and from the 5G Automotive association who made a really valid point. We can push as hard as we like, but ultimately it's up to the customer to decide whether or not to buy and deploy the technology that fits their purpose and their objectives. So Ahmed, let's come across to you first. I mean in your previous comments you mentioned some of the services you're seeing with 5G.
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (10:51):
Indeed. So basically we started with the Compass Networks also years before. So we have these products already for different users of Compass. So whether it's private network completely or it is a slice in the network. So we have these variety of options that enterprises can use. So as well said before in the video, it really depends on the pool on exactly what needs the enterprises have. The other set of services that we have are related to slicing and this is the 5G SA capabilities that we're using. And you have the example of the live video production. So we've done that and we've demonstrated that and it's available as a product for RTL and the likes. And additionally we also, one of the things we implemented for SME sector is what we call magenta on net security. So we implemented security in 5G, so in the network, so you don't need to install any software or do anything, you just rely on the network to identify you and provide you the security capabilities and protection you would need. And we found that gained a lot of traction from SMEs because they don't want to get bothered. Again, their demand is to have something simple and then they get the services they need. So they just few examples on how did we monetize 5G also in the enterprise space.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (12:12):
Thanks very much Ahmed. Let me just put this to you all now. Is it important that an event like this where the original focus was all on the operators and the vendor and that relationship, is it important to get these industries represented and to get them to participate and talk face-to-face and be involved in these discussions? Just how important is it to get these vertical markets and major enterprises into a show like MWC in front of the vendors and the operators? Anybody want to pick up on the importance of having this exposure to those enterprise customers? Sanjay,
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (12:50):
If enterprise is the focus and that's where we believe we can truly monetize 5G. So it's very important to understand them from the core and having these enterprises participate in MWC is a fresh breath and really understanding what they need and how do you sort of bring this 5G plus technology into the mix to really enable them, help them in their cause. So I think it's a really, really good idea to have them participate in this and I believe this year there were quite a few of them.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (13:29):
Yeah, absolutely. There were. Thanks Sanjay Ahmed, did you want to come in again on this point?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (13:34):
I believe that these kind of capabilities and services will be demanded all the way. So there's no doubt that we will continue to need that in the future and the enterprises has to take part into that. So how do we know what priorities they have, what would they prefer and how also the services being delivered to them, how to operationalize that.
(13:55):
When it comes to B2B, the models, the whole operating model makes a big difference. So if you take Compass Networks or slicing or other services, they need to be defined. How would that work for the enterprises? How do we convey the SLAs? What type of model would fit them? What type of operational model? Because we are now want to go into industries and these industries not only have requirements but they have a mode of operation so that needs to fit their mode of operation so they can actually leverage 5G the most. So if they're outside this discussion, that's very hard for us to assume or try to come to something suboptimal. They need to be part of the discussion. Definitely.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (14:38):
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you Ahmed. They do need to be part of this discussion. Shujaur, let's come across to you.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (14:44):
Yeah, I think just to quickly add to what Ahmed was saying, I think the additional advanced connectivity solutions are also bringing back some of these conversations with the enterprises. For example, non-terrestrial network. I think that was a topic at the MWC, with the integration of ai, the earlier Sanjay said at Telco to TechCo. I think some of these concepts are actually bringing enterprise interested in these conversations and I feel that I think going forward probably we'll see more and more of inception of enterprises in the MWC in general.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (15:18):
Yeah, I think you're right then and good to pick up on the NTN as well. I think we'll see more of that in the coming months than years. Right. Thanks very much everybody. Let's move on to look at our third trend that we identified here and it's an obvious one really it's the RAN, whether that's open virtual or cloud, the evolution of the radio access network. We've seen many different strategies, many different technology approaches and we even heard this year from Shujaur, CTO, Yago Tenorio saying it's really only a label which certainly caught our attention. So how do you think this is all developing and Shujaur, let me come straight back to you for your thoughts on developments we're seeing in the evolution of the RAN market.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (16:01):
Yeah, I think industry has now as come up to speed on the open ran virtual slash cloud ran. But I think in general there were two key trends that were seen at the show. The first one was the integration of AI with ai ran. I know there has been some comments, some still does not believe on ai ran, but in general it does provide a capability at the edge where you could have in parallel deploy AI as well as the RAN at the edge for GP as a service and other use cases that could be interesting for enterprises what you talk about it. I think the second trend that has was showcased at the open and alliance booth or a RN alliance booth was the automation and orchestration layer. We have seen that there has been traditional O-S-S-B-S-S layer being there in the radio networks for decades and now with open ran there is some option to create some open standard through O cloud as well as through service management and orchestration layer creating this standard O2 IMS interfaces.
(17:06):
There were some demo that was showcased with integration with the hardware manager abstracting the hardware layer as well as enabling the acceleration and operational operationalization of open ran. That was actually one of the key factor and challenge in the past to reduce the TCO. So I think there is, I know industry is slow adopting, but there was some effort and some demos and some showcases at the event that actually shows there is still some benefit for the technology and hopefully in the next few years, few cycles we will see the further and further the day to become much more easier and manageable through the reduced TCO with open RAN standards.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (17:49):
Thanks very much Shujaur and Ahmed, let's come across to you our operator representative on the show today. But during MWC week, were you seeing shifts in emphasis perhaps as to how the RAN strategies were being positioned or what the perception was or what are you noticing in terms of RAN trends at the moment?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (18:13):
Of course the new trend in the RAN that the AI ran, but I would say that this, just to unfold the term because the term is actually having some constituents into it, AI ran means here.
(18:25):
First is AI for ran. So which means bringing AI to the RAN and bringing AI to the RAN doesn't have to be in a distributed form, doesn't have to be in the site. It can also be centralized and we demonstrated what we call the RAN guardian agent. It's a multi agentic frameworks that has three agents or that actually talk to each others to detect the degradation of the network and also self-heal and create closed loop automation. And that was done centrally. So that is actually collecting the data from the RAN and running across these algorithms and the agen AI would work and heal the network. The other types that have been discussed is the AI in ran, which means that I would actually put AI chip sets or GPUs in the ran.
(19:10):
Of course, this an interesting perspectives. This is something that we are monitoring so we're carefully monitoring. Also, team of IS is also part of the AI ran alliance and actually we are very interested to see the outcome of that having GPUs in the RAN still cost-wise as high energy consumption is high. But we would like to see what does that mean in the future and if that would actually give us an advantage in the RAN, the complimentary part of that is the AI and ran, which is means that you would have the GPUs that could be multipurpose based, meaning that you can have AI for the ran into these GPUs but also have some capacity for enterprises or use cases that can run that. This is more or less the edge perspective and we've been in edge for many years. We started Edge years ago with mobile edge X, so we well known to go into that area and we are exploring this area and we're keen to see how this area would flourish. The key problem here or the key challenge here is are the use cases, the business use cases, do we have enough business use cases to gain the traction? So can pull that off or not. So this is very similar discussion like what we talk about 5G monetization. Okay, how do we monetize that?
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (20:24):
Great, thanks very much Ahmed. Yeah, there's some areas that we've already been working on as an industry, but there's also some interesting long-term plays going on here as well to watch out for. Well, let's move on to our next trend that we identified. The fourth trend, and this is a nice segue because it's AI and automation, you couldn't really escape AI at the show, but let's start with a clip from an interview we conducted on the last day of MWC.
Amajit Gupta, Lightstorm (20:53):
So the class of the infrastructure calls for a deep transformation, which is I think the first trend that I see. It calls for fresh capital, it calls for expertise and it talks of deep infrastructure skills. The second trend we see is around automation of the network. AI is as automatic as it gets. It almost thinks out several reasoning algorithms better than a human being in some cases now think of the network which supports that, that needs to be automated to be able to be and user controlled today. Sadly, most of the networks which support cloud do not support that and that's really the opportunity and the trend that I see in this marketplace.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (21:38):
So there we go. But what do you all think? I know last year was a big year for AI at this show, but the noise this year at times seemed just as loud. So what was the reaction to AI and automation at MWC this year? I'm going to come across around all of you, but Sanjay, let's start with you first.
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (21:57):
Yeah, obviously I think this year it was, we're talking about 5G monetizing, but we're also talking about monetizing gen ai. So I mean every booth you saw, every speech you heard, every CEO that talked about AI was in the mix. So clearly AI is a trend that's becoming critically important to see over the next few years and see how it can help different aspects of what I call today challenges. How do you use AI to make these networks autonomous, make them efficient? But as well, one of the biggest problem industry has is they're still stuck with traditional low SS basis. So how do you use AI agent AI and automation to uberize that very complex machine that these telcos have built over the years? Right. So I think AI clearly is going to be in central stage for few years to come and we'll see evident use cases that's going to make life better for the industry, whether it's to do with automate monetization or it's to make networks efficient or it's to uberize O-S-S-B-S-S or CRM and as well the company I represent, we're very focused on using AI technology, which one creates an abstraction layer on top of B-S-S-C-R-M or MarTech, but also helps telcos to create embedded connectivity into anything.
(23:44):
Like for example, if you're using TikTok and that if you're putting that embedded connectivity from the telco into the TikTok, it'll sense that you're running out of the data and a pop-up will come in, you click on it and you bought the data in one second. So in this case, TikTok becomes your point of sales. So you will see the marriage of telco through these embedded connectivity using gen ai, AI creating new avenues of monetization and efficiency. So yeah, I think that's clearly AI is staying here and we'll see more use cases appearing and we'll see AI becoming enable to create connectivity with enterprises and consumers in a better way to create delight, to create gamification and simply giving them motivation to consume more. I think that's going to help the industry.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (24:47):
Yeah, thanks Sanjay. It's absolutely fascinating to see developments in this area. Phil, let's come across to you. What were you noticing about AI and automation this year? MWC?
Phil Mottram, HPE (24:56):
Yeah, sure. So obviously Hewlett Packard Enterprise, that's a huge history in IT systems. I think if you take the 10 fastest supercomputers that are built in the world, seven of them have been built by HPE. So this whole space and AI is a huge part of our business. I think probably 70% of the conversations I had with operators, I talked about a particular use case study that we have where we built an AI cloud for European operator and we talked about five use cases that they have. Three were internal use cases and as you would expect it was kind of improving customer services, how they would manage the network. But interestingly, two of them were external, so where they'd managed to get customers to come and pay to sit on the telcos AI cloud. And so they saw this as a revenue generation opportunity. One of the customers was a public sector customer and then the other one was a company that actually wanted to roll out an autonomous vehicle driving system in that particular country. And in those sorts of use cases, it makes a lot of sense for the application to be very, very close to the network. And so that generates a revenue opportunity for the operators in the AI space. So yeah, we had a lot of conversations about that.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (26:19):
Yeah, the possibilities are absolutely fantastic at the moment. It's really interesting to hear about these conversations. Thanks Phil. Ahmed, let's come across to you next. You've already spoken about AI ran in detail there, but what other areas of AI and automation were you seeing and discussed at MWC?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (26:40):
Excellent. So basically I see is not a hype or trend anymore, it's a mainstream and it'll continue to be that in the next decade. So that is something proving that AI is becoming really a cornerstone. If I look into the areas, if you're asking for the areas where that would manifest itself, if I just look into networks in networks across the entire life cycle from planning, designing, building the network, operating the network, security of the network, and even cross-functional activities, all that can be powered by ai. And there are endless use cases that I can give you some examples, of course, some examples of that when planning, forecasting market intelligence, the forecasting alone and smart CapEx allocations is something that's an easy use case to be done. If you go into a little bit into the build, which is we are building a lot of fibers with billions of viewers every year and what we're trying to employ there, a lot of AI that would actually enhance the processes, cut off the time to market, make sure that also the processes are coherent and easy for the customers and easy internally.
(27:48):
So give you one example. So just quality assurance for the build. So just making sure that when we dig the roads with third parties and we want to make sure that the quality is according to the standards we have set and agreed with these third parties. But what is the best way? We cannot send someone an expert for every place we're digging everywhere in Germany. So what we do is that we ask the third parties to take pictures and videos of what they have dig and what they have done, and then we analyze that by AI and verify whether that is really according to specs or not. And we do a lot of these type of use cases in order to make sure that we have very fast reaction to things, whether it's quality assurance, predictive maintenance, or even something that just crosses the boundaries between planning, design and implementation. So a that just networks alone is a huge potential, let alone customer consumer services, what we launched with perplexity together. So launching this Magen AI with perplexity and having that in the hands of the customers is another example for consumer service with ai. So AI will be everywhere and I think it's off the hype cycle and in the very end it's now getting stabilized. It's a mainstream.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (29:05):
Absolutely. Ahmed, thank you very much. Yeah, it's not just the external services, it's the internal use as well. And maybe a year ago we were still saying where are the actual use cases internally in the network, but now we're seeing them. That's great. And sja, let's come across to you. What were you seeing and hearing about AI and automation?
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (29:22):
Yeah, I think little bit away from use cases, say Red hat DN a's open source and hybrid cloud. Now integrating AI into the picture, we are actually putting a lot of efforts enabling the silicons, GPUs, GPUs, XPOs at the silicon layer. Now going into the cloud layer, we are actually looking ahead from transforming from cloud native to AI native. I think that was one of the key theme that we saw at the M wc, especially during our conversations with the CSPs, how to be AI native across RAN core O-S-S-B-S-S, private 5G or Azure networks or in the CX transformation, digital transformation part of the network. And also going up in the stack from say API perspective. We also envision that ultimately AI is going to take over this API open APIs as well. Rather than having this static APIs, you could use AI in order to define this open API.
(30:19):
So we call it AI PI. So we had some showcase and some conversations with CSPs regarding that as well. And I think especially I think automation and our position, which we already talked about how to bring AI into that picture. And I think one of the biggest opportunity for us in telcos from the stack perspective, from the cloud native AI native transformation perspective is look into where legacy AI is placed today in the network and find a way to convert into gen ai. Like earlier ammo shared the example of guard agent there was already going in the RAN and there was some agents placed. So I think this will be the framework, identifying the opportunities where there's already some sort of predictive or legacy EF present in the network, bring that back into more gen EF framework, enable and uplift their experience in order to further make the use within the entire network.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (31:15):
Yeah, thanks very much Soja. And I do feel that AI native is definitely here to stay, right? Looking at our next trend now, fifth trend we identified network APIs big launch for the GSMA open gateway. Last year and this year we had more news on Aduna. So there's a lot going on still, but there are still some skeptics out there. Not everyone is convinced yet, but how well do you think the API message was received at MWC this year? Shujaur, let me come straight back to you. I know you've got some thoughts on this.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (31:49):
Yeah, I think I did. I share example about the how Red Hat we are playing in that open API space. So we are working across our partner ecosystem in order to create this abstraction layer for EPS because what we feel is now there are multiple frameworks there. There's some static KPIs that are actually defined by the GSMA, then we have TM Forum, we have 3GPP framework for the APIs. I think there's a need to have some sort of abstraction and then applying that AI technology, especially enabling at the AI native platform layer. I think there is definitely some way in order to further enhance and uplift the overall collaboration and the part is party ecosystem and through operator ecosystem. I think there's definitely some ways this can be further evolve and enhance and I think we'll see some evolution over the next few cycles.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (32:40):
Yeah, I think we certainly will. Thanks very much. And Sanjay, let's come across to you. Have you any thoughts about network APIs and how this market's going and what we saw at mwc?
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (32:52):
I think we've been talking about this for many years. I mean I think what we are experimenting with number telcos around the world is how do you simplify these APIs? We call it, I mentioned earlier a concept called embedded connectivity. How do you take something from the telco and put it in an enterprise app or a super app And that way I gave an example of TikTok. You can imagine now if you create an embedded connectivity, let's say in an Uber. So the moment you are landing in a country and you are ordering Uber, that embedded connectivity, that is that SDK or an open API that has created that embedded connectivity with that OTT, you'll get a popup say, oh well you have order detection now, do you need connectivity? And if you say yes, now Uber becomes your point of sales and from a telco perspective your cost of acquisition is zero and you have got the tourists coming into your country cap now is your customer. So I think we discussed that with many telcos and obviously it's part of a bigger theme, which is how do I become beyond connectivity? How do I create delight? How do I embed myself into other players so I can make them partner into my revenue generation and as a result make myself efficient, reduce my cost of acquisition and so on. I think that was kind of a perspective to, I think I discussed with number telcos and there was a huge interest.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (34:42):
Yeah, thanks Sanjay. It's interesting to hear about personally, I'm quite keen to see what the impact that ag agentic AI is going to have on traditional APIs and if that causes problems going forward. But anyway, onto trend number six and what we are calling alternative markets, and we really think it's time we start breaking a taboo here and mention the defense industry. It's not something we can ignore anymore. And really we need to talk more openly about its value to vendors and to operators. But first, just to set the scene, let me play you a couple of clips that we heard from at MWC.
Topi Manner, Elisa (35:22):
The geopolitical turmoil that we are leaving currently means that, for example, defense industry will be having a lot of investment need going forward. And I think our industry plays a in that. So that creates growth opportunities. So the world is changing and I think that there will be opportunities we need to capture those opportunities.
Tommi Uitto, Nokia (35:45):
Defense is such a no brainer. I mean if you think about the wireless communication systems that NATO and many armed forces around the world have, they have systems which are optimized for voice and the data capability is comparable to 3G. If they complimented those systems with dual use 4G and 5G technology, they get 10 times the performance for one 10th of the cost. No brainer.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (36:13):
Well, both of those are Finnish companies, so obviously they're facing some serious geopolitical issues at the moment. But should we now be more open about this? Does anybody else see a shift towards alternative non-traditional markets such as defense? Phil, have you got any thoughts about this move?
Phil Mottram, HPE (36:32):
Yeah, sure. So Hewlett Packard Enterprise, we're seeing quite a take up actually in the defense market for our solutions in particular actually private 5G. And there's a couple of use cases that come to mind. One is we have a lot of army bases where they're building networks across the base. And because it's kind of an outdoor widespread environment, it's a good fit for private 5G because obviously they want to keep track of all of the equipment and devices they have on the base. So they're deploying the technology to do that. And then the other use case, we actually offer a private 5G solution in a backpack for a soldier who could step on a battlefield and establish a private 5G network to be able to communicate with colleagues, keep track of colleagues, but also link to drones, try and work out where the enemy is, and also communicate with air forces. So yeah, we're seeing a big take up of this sort of technology in the defense sector.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (37:38):
Yeah, it's interesting. Thank you very much for those examples. Phil and Sanjay, let's come across to you. Are you seeing a similar trends?
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (37:47):
Yeah, I mean on the defense side particularly, I mean you have border security for example, is becoming very, very crucial with the current geopolitical tension. So you could actually use 5G, five Gs, a 5G slicing with security cameras and AI all in combination to automate that and make the border secure from a nation's perspective, a broader security perspective. Yeah,
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (38:27):
Thanks very much, Sanjay. Well, I'm going to stay with you now Sanjay, because I'd also like to ask all of you, we've covered six trends on this show, but is there anything else? Is there anything we've overlooked? Are there any other developments or areas of interest that we should be aware of?
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (38:42):
I mean, we did a survey, we talked about a hundred CEOs, tier one and tier two CEOs, and there was one thing that was on top three agenda points for everyone, and that was to become a TechCo. So this transformation from telco to TechCo was a clear trend. I'm surprised you guys didn't notice it. The second one was clearly creating true digital mobile operators. We talk about cloud in the ran, we talk about 5GSA, but I can tell you our O-S-S-B-S still hasn't evolved. It's still monolithic. And imagine if you are in a world where you're serving Gen Zs or Gen Ds, every consumer is a segment and those traditional OSS basis systems are going to be showstoppers. They're not going to take you forward. So clearly creating that digital mobile operator, my personal belief is for 5G monetization is not happening. I think one of the reasons is that we don't have robust Uberized, OSS BSS that can enable it. Right? So that's kind of second one, the telco to TechCo and creating ideal digital mobile operators holistically.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (40:02):
Great honest assessment there. Thank you, Sanjay. That's great. And Ahmed, let's come across to you. Any other areas there that we should be aware of that have emerged from MWC?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (40:12):
There's one trend that we missed. There's also NTN non-terrestrial networks. So that includes satellite of also high altitude platforms. And in the previous discussion about defense or public sector is also becoming pretty relevant. So this is also a trend and it's also taking shape.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (40:29):
Yes, spot on. We were aware of that. We were just worried about it wasn't quite at the right volume, but we think it's certainly going that way and this is an area that we are certainly going to be focused on over the next few months as well. Shujaur, let's come across to you for any other trends that we might have seen.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (40:46):
Yeah, I think little bit echoing what Sanja said about OSS BSS, I think I saw the big need with the legacy baggage that operators may have and that is related to virtualization. I think there was a lot of talks related to how to migrate off virtualization to cloud native. So I think what I can see is probably this will be the last year we'll talk about virtualization, hopefully starting next year. I think cloud native is going to be the next foundation and base for the telecom networks.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (41:16):
Thanks very much, Shujaur. That's great. And Phil, do you want to finish us off? Do you want to have some final comments about your overall views of MWC, what else you might've seen?
Phil Mottram, HPE (41:25):
Yeah, sure. It's less of a trend, but I think few people have during just around the overall impression that it's less about the hype associated with technologies now it's more about how are operators really using them. So this kind of back to basics concept to either make more money or save money. So I definitely picked up that trend throughout the show and the meetings that I had.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (41:52):
That's a real positive. Thank you very much, Phil. Well we must leave it there. You've given us all plenty to think about. But for now, thank you all so very much indeed for taking part in the after show. Well that was our final program in this year's Spotlight on 5G series links to the daily slice programs are included below. And there are multitude of videos from MWC to watch on our website. No more from Spotlight on 5G this year. But do watch out for our defining six G networks. It's a new series of programs and downloadable reports. And next month also sees the return of our telco as a platform summit. The online event is open for registrations and you can submit questions and take part in our viewer poll. But for now, thank you very much for watching and goodbye.
The dust in here, phew we need a good sweep up. Hello and welcome to The After Show, the final program in this year's Spotlight on 5G series. I'm Guy Daniels, and in today's show we are going to be discussing this year's MWC event in Barcelona. Now we covered the news with our daily editions of the slice, and if you haven't watched them all yet, then please do so. You'll find all the links in the text below this video. Well, I'm delighted to say that joining me on the program today are Ahmed Hafez, who is VP Technology Strategy at Deutsche Telekom. Phil Mottram, who is EVP and GM with HPE Aruba Networking, Shujaur Mufti, who is Senior Manager Global Partner Solutions Telco at Red Hat. And Sanjay Kaul, who is Chief Revenue Officer for Circles. Hello everyone. Really good to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.
(01:09):
Now we're going to work through some of the more identifiable trends from MWC 25, but first of all, let's have a lightning TLDR round. Let's have go into the real meat of this in a short space of time. I'm going to ask each of you in turn for your quick summary of the event in no more than 15 seconds please. So just your summary. So I'm going to start off, I mean to me it felt like this was the industry catching its breath a bit, taking stock. There were no real shocks or surprises. It was, dare I say, a little bit safe and perhaps just a little less hype than the previous year. But I'm interested to know what you think. So let's start with Ahmed. What are your overall impressions?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (01:56):
I mean the overall impressions I had with the event were pretty positive. So we see also the attendees, we see significant amounts of attendees coming out from the outside of the industry, so I was delighted to see that. And also seeing Agentic AI and AI everywhere, which is really an inflection point for the industry going forward. So for me, very positive and looking forward for how do we utilize the capabilities that have been shown there.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (02:20):
Great. Thanks Ahmed. Yes, indeed. Numbers were very positive this year, weren't they? And it is the year of Agentic AI. Phil, what about you?
Phil Mottram, HPE (02:27):
Yeah, look, I think it was a very busy show, so that was good news for me. I think it was back to business, if that makes sense. So I think some of the previous shows have been very technology orientated, be it 4g, 5g, this was a bit more about how can we use technology to either make money or save money. So I think it was back to business, how can we use technology to save money or make money?
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (02:52):
Yeah, good point. Absolutely. Phil, back to basics and back to what's really important, Shujaur, let's come across to you next.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (02:58):
Yeah, I'll echo that as well. I think for me, MWC continue to lead the telecom industry, bringing in the mobile operators, the technology partners, the enterprise ecosystem in order to accelerate the 5G 5G advanced evolution into 6G. This year was pretty high on the integration of AI across the whole telco networks. I think that was pretty interesting to see how it is going to shape in the next few years.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (03:24):
Yeah, it certainly will be and certainly the show to be at, isn't it? And Sanjay, let's come across to you now.
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (03:30):
No, I mean few things were said already as AI was everywhere. Genetech ai, I mean 5G monetization, not as much as the previously, but still everybody talking about how to get bottom line. I also saw many players talking about becoming TechCo and I think that was really, really a bit different than the previous years. I think we've been hearing about 5G and 5G monetization, but this time it was telco and that's the true journey towards becoming technos or TechCos in the industry and that was great.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (04:12):
Excellent. Thanks Sanjay. Well thanks everyone and it's a show that it means a lot to different people. Everyone gets something different out of that show. It's so big. Well, we are going to look in a little more detail at some of the major trends that we identified here at telecom tv, some of the major trends of the show. And we're going to start with 5G monetization and the move to 5G standalone. Now from our perspective, we thought there was a bit more emphasis on this year and the industry really needs it, but I'd like to know what you think as well, Phil. Can we maybe come across to you first for your perspective and your angle of 5G?
Phil Mottram, HPE (04:50):
Yeah, sure. So I mean I work for HPE and I run the Aruba division. Within the Aruba division we have wifi and we have private 5G capabilities as well. So a lot of the conversations that we had with the operators were around how could they use private 5G and deliver more of a solution to their customers either using the operator spectrum or in some countries obviously the government is providing a free spectrum, but there seems to be a lot of interest around monetization of private 5G in particular sectors. And we're looking for use cases where either speed is important or large outdoor spaces. So lots of interesting case studies around warehouses, ports, agriculture, manufacturing, so some real vertical use cases for private 5G. And I say a lot of interest from operators about how they could use that technology to monetize their spectrum more.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (05:50):
Great. That's good to hear Phil, thanks very much for that. And Shujaur we'll come across to you now.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (05:57):
Yeah, I think from my perspective 5GSA is the key in order to set the pace for 5G monetization, I know we are having some challenges with the overall monetization story, but I feel that throughout the effort GSA underscored complete 5G efforts at the event which actually helps in accelerating 5G SA adoption in the industry. And I think from Red Hat perspective, looking into a common telco cloud which is a uniform and ubiquitous across multiple connectivity streams, which is able to provide this open and flexible standards and capabilities in order to absorb this additional network APIs additional capabilities with integration of a p, I think all of that architecture is going to set the pace for 5G monetization. I think the first really the key is the adoption of 5G SA in the macro network and looking into ways how to make the architecture open and flexible in order to help reap the benefits of 5G monetization.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (06:59):
Yeah, absolutely. And this is something we as an industry really, really need to get to grips with. Ahmed, let's come across to you. What were you seeing and hearing about 5G monetization and standalone at the event this year?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (07:11):
It's quite interesting, but I would agree with Phil actually this year is not as much as last year. So we're still having of course 5G monetization discussions but not as intense as last time. So nevertheless, I want actually to take a step back and say that the 5G monetization is not limited to B2B. So there is monetization happening already from consumers. So in Deutsche Telekom we see that there's a lot of value coming and revenues coming from 5G already despite the fact we see and we understand and recognize there is a huge potential for B2B, but this does not mean that 5G is only for B2B, it's actually far beyond that. So hence we see the potential coming from various things we worked on slicing. So the live video production we did with RTL for instance and having available slices for this type of services is at least one example of services that could be used for 5G SA for enterprise customers as well.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (08:09):
Yeah, thanks very much and we're going to come on to services in just a moment, but this is why we have this show getting your views and what you thought was important and what you saw often differs from what we see. It is fascinating to sort of step back now after a week's gone by, right second trend then that we're going to talk about enterprise and vertical markets. But before we do, let's watch a couple of brief clips from our MWC interviews, which were too late to be included in the daily slice.
Kerry Small, BT Business (08:40):
We are seeing a new wave coming through and for us we always start with what is the outcome, what's the problem the customer's looking to solve? It's easy to talk technology connectivity is the product, but it's not the story. The story is what do you want to change in your business? And we spend a lot of time with customers really forcing that conversation saying let's not look at a technology solution, let's look at an outcome to solve
Sanjiv Gossain, Verizon Business (09:02):
Here in emea it's more about private 5G networks and for us we are not talking as much about the technology anymore. Naturally it's secure, low latency, et cetera. But what we are talking about to our customers now is about the use cases. How do I get more connected workers? Can I use 5G to improve worker safety perhaps in an outdoor environment, can I use it for autonomous vehicles and robots and things for picking and shipping, et cetera. Those are the kinds of examples that we're really, really talking to customers about, which is what's the impact of it rather than this is a cool technology, let's try and figure out how to use it.
Maxime Flament, 5GAA (09:42):
So the direct component of the 3G PPP standards for automotive is really putting together the vehicles to vehicle search, having this direct component of communication. There is a chicken and egg problem in terms of how to implement this and who are the first implementers. And in this case the push is not done by the mobile network operators, but the push has to be done by the vehicle manufacturers. And so we are expecting in different parts of the world this implementation being done. It takes its time but the adoption has to come from the vacuum manufacturer.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (10:22):
Yeah, interesting comments there from BT and Verizon and from the 5G Automotive association who made a really valid point. We can push as hard as we like, but ultimately it's up to the customer to decide whether or not to buy and deploy the technology that fits their purpose and their objectives. So Ahmed, let's come across to you first. I mean in your previous comments you mentioned some of the services you're seeing with 5G.
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (10:51):
Indeed. So basically we started with the Compass Networks also years before. So we have these products already for different users of Compass. So whether it's private network completely or it is a slice in the network. So we have these variety of options that enterprises can use. So as well said before in the video, it really depends on the pool on exactly what needs the enterprises have. The other set of services that we have are related to slicing and this is the 5G SA capabilities that we're using. And you have the example of the live video production. So we've done that and we've demonstrated that and it's available as a product for RTL and the likes. And additionally we also, one of the things we implemented for SME sector is what we call magenta on net security. So we implemented security in 5G, so in the network, so you don't need to install any software or do anything, you just rely on the network to identify you and provide you the security capabilities and protection you would need. And we found that gained a lot of traction from SMEs because they don't want to get bothered. Again, their demand is to have something simple and then they get the services they need. So they just few examples on how did we monetize 5G also in the enterprise space.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (12:12):
Thanks very much Ahmed. Let me just put this to you all now. Is it important that an event like this where the original focus was all on the operators and the vendor and that relationship, is it important to get these industries represented and to get them to participate and talk face-to-face and be involved in these discussions? Just how important is it to get these vertical markets and major enterprises into a show like MWC in front of the vendors and the operators? Anybody want to pick up on the importance of having this exposure to those enterprise customers? Sanjay,
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (12:50):
If enterprise is the focus and that's where we believe we can truly monetize 5G. So it's very important to understand them from the core and having these enterprises participate in MWC is a fresh breath and really understanding what they need and how do you sort of bring this 5G plus technology into the mix to really enable them, help them in their cause. So I think it's a really, really good idea to have them participate in this and I believe this year there were quite a few of them.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (13:29):
Yeah, absolutely. There were. Thanks Sanjay Ahmed, did you want to come in again on this point?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (13:34):
I believe that these kind of capabilities and services will be demanded all the way. So there's no doubt that we will continue to need that in the future and the enterprises has to take part into that. So how do we know what priorities they have, what would they prefer and how also the services being delivered to them, how to operationalize that.
(13:55):
When it comes to B2B, the models, the whole operating model makes a big difference. So if you take Compass Networks or slicing or other services, they need to be defined. How would that work for the enterprises? How do we convey the SLAs? What type of model would fit them? What type of operational model? Because we are now want to go into industries and these industries not only have requirements but they have a mode of operation so that needs to fit their mode of operation so they can actually leverage 5G the most. So if they're outside this discussion, that's very hard for us to assume or try to come to something suboptimal. They need to be part of the discussion. Definitely.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (14:38):
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you Ahmed. They do need to be part of this discussion. Shujaur, let's come across to you.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (14:44):
Yeah, I think just to quickly add to what Ahmed was saying, I think the additional advanced connectivity solutions are also bringing back some of these conversations with the enterprises. For example, non-terrestrial network. I think that was a topic at the MWC, with the integration of ai, the earlier Sanjay said at Telco to TechCo. I think some of these concepts are actually bringing enterprise interested in these conversations and I feel that I think going forward probably we'll see more and more of inception of enterprises in the MWC in general.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (15:18):
Yeah, I think you're right then and good to pick up on the NTN as well. I think we'll see more of that in the coming months than years. Right. Thanks very much everybody. Let's move on to look at our third trend that we identified here and it's an obvious one really it's the RAN, whether that's open virtual or cloud, the evolution of the radio access network. We've seen many different strategies, many different technology approaches and we even heard this year from Shujaur, CTO, Yago Tenorio saying it's really only a label which certainly caught our attention. So how do you think this is all developing and Shujaur, let me come straight back to you for your thoughts on developments we're seeing in the evolution of the RAN market.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (16:01):
Yeah, I think industry has now as come up to speed on the open ran virtual slash cloud ran. But I think in general there were two key trends that were seen at the show. The first one was the integration of AI with ai ran. I know there has been some comments, some still does not believe on ai ran, but in general it does provide a capability at the edge where you could have in parallel deploy AI as well as the RAN at the edge for GP as a service and other use cases that could be interesting for enterprises what you talk about it. I think the second trend that has was showcased at the open and alliance booth or a RN alliance booth was the automation and orchestration layer. We have seen that there has been traditional O-S-S-B-S-S layer being there in the radio networks for decades and now with open ran there is some option to create some open standard through O cloud as well as through service management and orchestration layer creating this standard O2 IMS interfaces.
(17:06):
There were some demo that was showcased with integration with the hardware manager abstracting the hardware layer as well as enabling the acceleration and operational operationalization of open ran. That was actually one of the key factor and challenge in the past to reduce the TCO. So I think there is, I know industry is slow adopting, but there was some effort and some demos and some showcases at the event that actually shows there is still some benefit for the technology and hopefully in the next few years, few cycles we will see the further and further the day to become much more easier and manageable through the reduced TCO with open RAN standards.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (17:49):
Thanks very much Shujaur and Ahmed, let's come across to you our operator representative on the show today. But during MWC week, were you seeing shifts in emphasis perhaps as to how the RAN strategies were being positioned or what the perception was or what are you noticing in terms of RAN trends at the moment?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (18:13):
Of course the new trend in the RAN that the AI ran, but I would say that this, just to unfold the term because the term is actually having some constituents into it, AI ran means here.
(18:25):
First is AI for ran. So which means bringing AI to the RAN and bringing AI to the RAN doesn't have to be in a distributed form, doesn't have to be in the site. It can also be centralized and we demonstrated what we call the RAN guardian agent. It's a multi agentic frameworks that has three agents or that actually talk to each others to detect the degradation of the network and also self-heal and create closed loop automation. And that was done centrally. So that is actually collecting the data from the RAN and running across these algorithms and the agen AI would work and heal the network. The other types that have been discussed is the AI in ran, which means that I would actually put AI chip sets or GPUs in the ran.
(19:10):
Of course, this an interesting perspectives. This is something that we are monitoring so we're carefully monitoring. Also, team of IS is also part of the AI ran alliance and actually we are very interested to see the outcome of that having GPUs in the RAN still cost-wise as high energy consumption is high. But we would like to see what does that mean in the future and if that would actually give us an advantage in the RAN, the complimentary part of that is the AI and ran, which is means that you would have the GPUs that could be multipurpose based, meaning that you can have AI for the ran into these GPUs but also have some capacity for enterprises or use cases that can run that. This is more or less the edge perspective and we've been in edge for many years. We started Edge years ago with mobile edge X, so we well known to go into that area and we are exploring this area and we're keen to see how this area would flourish. The key problem here or the key challenge here is are the use cases, the business use cases, do we have enough business use cases to gain the traction? So can pull that off or not. So this is very similar discussion like what we talk about 5G monetization. Okay, how do we monetize that?
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (20:24):
Great, thanks very much Ahmed. Yeah, there's some areas that we've already been working on as an industry, but there's also some interesting long-term plays going on here as well to watch out for. Well, let's move on to our next trend that we identified. The fourth trend, and this is a nice segue because it's AI and automation, you couldn't really escape AI at the show, but let's start with a clip from an interview we conducted on the last day of MWC.
Amajit Gupta, Lightstorm (20:53):
So the class of the infrastructure calls for a deep transformation, which is I think the first trend that I see. It calls for fresh capital, it calls for expertise and it talks of deep infrastructure skills. The second trend we see is around automation of the network. AI is as automatic as it gets. It almost thinks out several reasoning algorithms better than a human being in some cases now think of the network which supports that, that needs to be automated to be able to be and user controlled today. Sadly, most of the networks which support cloud do not support that and that's really the opportunity and the trend that I see in this marketplace.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (21:38):
So there we go. But what do you all think? I know last year was a big year for AI at this show, but the noise this year at times seemed just as loud. So what was the reaction to AI and automation at MWC this year? I'm going to come across around all of you, but Sanjay, let's start with you first.
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (21:57):
Yeah, obviously I think this year it was, we're talking about 5G monetizing, but we're also talking about monetizing gen ai. So I mean every booth you saw, every speech you heard, every CEO that talked about AI was in the mix. So clearly AI is a trend that's becoming critically important to see over the next few years and see how it can help different aspects of what I call today challenges. How do you use AI to make these networks autonomous, make them efficient? But as well, one of the biggest problem industry has is they're still stuck with traditional low SS basis. So how do you use AI agent AI and automation to uberize that very complex machine that these telcos have built over the years? Right. So I think AI clearly is going to be in central stage for few years to come and we'll see evident use cases that's going to make life better for the industry, whether it's to do with automate monetization or it's to make networks efficient or it's to uberize O-S-S-B-S-S or CRM and as well the company I represent, we're very focused on using AI technology, which one creates an abstraction layer on top of B-S-S-C-R-M or MarTech, but also helps telcos to create embedded connectivity into anything.
(23:44):
Like for example, if you're using TikTok and that if you're putting that embedded connectivity from the telco into the TikTok, it'll sense that you're running out of the data and a pop-up will come in, you click on it and you bought the data in one second. So in this case, TikTok becomes your point of sales. So you will see the marriage of telco through these embedded connectivity using gen ai, AI creating new avenues of monetization and efficiency. So yeah, I think that's clearly AI is staying here and we'll see more use cases appearing and we'll see AI becoming enable to create connectivity with enterprises and consumers in a better way to create delight, to create gamification and simply giving them motivation to consume more. I think that's going to help the industry.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (24:47):
Yeah, thanks Sanjay. It's absolutely fascinating to see developments in this area. Phil, let's come across to you. What were you noticing about AI and automation this year? MWC?
Phil Mottram, HPE (24:56):
Yeah, sure. So obviously Hewlett Packard Enterprise, that's a huge history in IT systems. I think if you take the 10 fastest supercomputers that are built in the world, seven of them have been built by HPE. So this whole space and AI is a huge part of our business. I think probably 70% of the conversations I had with operators, I talked about a particular use case study that we have where we built an AI cloud for European operator and we talked about five use cases that they have. Three were internal use cases and as you would expect it was kind of improving customer services, how they would manage the network. But interestingly, two of them were external, so where they'd managed to get customers to come and pay to sit on the telcos AI cloud. And so they saw this as a revenue generation opportunity. One of the customers was a public sector customer and then the other one was a company that actually wanted to roll out an autonomous vehicle driving system in that particular country. And in those sorts of use cases, it makes a lot of sense for the application to be very, very close to the network. And so that generates a revenue opportunity for the operators in the AI space. So yeah, we had a lot of conversations about that.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (26:19):
Yeah, the possibilities are absolutely fantastic at the moment. It's really interesting to hear about these conversations. Thanks Phil. Ahmed, let's come across to you next. You've already spoken about AI ran in detail there, but what other areas of AI and automation were you seeing and discussed at MWC?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (26:40):
Excellent. So basically I see is not a hype or trend anymore, it's a mainstream and it'll continue to be that in the next decade. So that is something proving that AI is becoming really a cornerstone. If I look into the areas, if you're asking for the areas where that would manifest itself, if I just look into networks in networks across the entire life cycle from planning, designing, building the network, operating the network, security of the network, and even cross-functional activities, all that can be powered by ai. And there are endless use cases that I can give you some examples, of course, some examples of that when planning, forecasting market intelligence, the forecasting alone and smart CapEx allocations is something that's an easy use case to be done. If you go into a little bit into the build, which is we are building a lot of fibers with billions of viewers every year and what we're trying to employ there, a lot of AI that would actually enhance the processes, cut off the time to market, make sure that also the processes are coherent and easy for the customers and easy internally.
(27:48):
So give you one example. So just quality assurance for the build. So just making sure that when we dig the roads with third parties and we want to make sure that the quality is according to the standards we have set and agreed with these third parties. But what is the best way? We cannot send someone an expert for every place we're digging everywhere in Germany. So what we do is that we ask the third parties to take pictures and videos of what they have dig and what they have done, and then we analyze that by AI and verify whether that is really according to specs or not. And we do a lot of these type of use cases in order to make sure that we have very fast reaction to things, whether it's quality assurance, predictive maintenance, or even something that just crosses the boundaries between planning, design and implementation. So a that just networks alone is a huge potential, let alone customer consumer services, what we launched with perplexity together. So launching this Magen AI with perplexity and having that in the hands of the customers is another example for consumer service with ai. So AI will be everywhere and I think it's off the hype cycle and in the very end it's now getting stabilized. It's a mainstream.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (29:05):
Absolutely. Ahmed, thank you very much. Yeah, it's not just the external services, it's the internal use as well. And maybe a year ago we were still saying where are the actual use cases internally in the network, but now we're seeing them. That's great. And sja, let's come across to you. What were you seeing and hearing about AI and automation?
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (29:22):
Yeah, I think little bit away from use cases, say Red hat DN a's open source and hybrid cloud. Now integrating AI into the picture, we are actually putting a lot of efforts enabling the silicons, GPUs, GPUs, XPOs at the silicon layer. Now going into the cloud layer, we are actually looking ahead from transforming from cloud native to AI native. I think that was one of the key theme that we saw at the M wc, especially during our conversations with the CSPs, how to be AI native across RAN core O-S-S-B-S-S, private 5G or Azure networks or in the CX transformation, digital transformation part of the network. And also going up in the stack from say API perspective. We also envision that ultimately AI is going to take over this API open APIs as well. Rather than having this static APIs, you could use AI in order to define this open API.
(30:19):
So we call it AI PI. So we had some showcase and some conversations with CSPs regarding that as well. And I think especially I think automation and our position, which we already talked about how to bring AI into that picture. And I think one of the biggest opportunity for us in telcos from the stack perspective, from the cloud native AI native transformation perspective is look into where legacy AI is placed today in the network and find a way to convert into gen ai. Like earlier ammo shared the example of guard agent there was already going in the RAN and there was some agents placed. So I think this will be the framework, identifying the opportunities where there's already some sort of predictive or legacy EF present in the network, bring that back into more gen EF framework, enable and uplift their experience in order to further make the use within the entire network.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (31:15):
Yeah, thanks very much Soja. And I do feel that AI native is definitely here to stay, right? Looking at our next trend now, fifth trend we identified network APIs big launch for the GSMA open gateway. Last year and this year we had more news on Aduna. So there's a lot going on still, but there are still some skeptics out there. Not everyone is convinced yet, but how well do you think the API message was received at MWC this year? Shujaur, let me come straight back to you. I know you've got some thoughts on this.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (31:49):
Yeah, I think I did. I share example about the how Red Hat we are playing in that open API space. So we are working across our partner ecosystem in order to create this abstraction layer for EPS because what we feel is now there are multiple frameworks there. There's some static KPIs that are actually defined by the GSMA, then we have TM Forum, we have 3GPP framework for the APIs. I think there's a need to have some sort of abstraction and then applying that AI technology, especially enabling at the AI native platform layer. I think there is definitely some way in order to further enhance and uplift the overall collaboration and the part is party ecosystem and through operator ecosystem. I think there's definitely some ways this can be further evolve and enhance and I think we'll see some evolution over the next few cycles.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (32:40):
Yeah, I think we certainly will. Thanks very much. And Sanjay, let's come across to you. Have you any thoughts about network APIs and how this market's going and what we saw at mwc?
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (32:52):
I think we've been talking about this for many years. I mean I think what we are experimenting with number telcos around the world is how do you simplify these APIs? We call it, I mentioned earlier a concept called embedded connectivity. How do you take something from the telco and put it in an enterprise app or a super app And that way I gave an example of TikTok. You can imagine now if you create an embedded connectivity, let's say in an Uber. So the moment you are landing in a country and you are ordering Uber, that embedded connectivity, that is that SDK or an open API that has created that embedded connectivity with that OTT, you'll get a popup say, oh well you have order detection now, do you need connectivity? And if you say yes, now Uber becomes your point of sales and from a telco perspective your cost of acquisition is zero and you have got the tourists coming into your country cap now is your customer. So I think we discussed that with many telcos and obviously it's part of a bigger theme, which is how do I become beyond connectivity? How do I create delight? How do I embed myself into other players so I can make them partner into my revenue generation and as a result make myself efficient, reduce my cost of acquisition and so on. I think that was kind of a perspective to, I think I discussed with number telcos and there was a huge interest.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (34:42):
Yeah, thanks Sanjay. It's interesting to hear about personally, I'm quite keen to see what the impact that ag agentic AI is going to have on traditional APIs and if that causes problems going forward. But anyway, onto trend number six and what we are calling alternative markets, and we really think it's time we start breaking a taboo here and mention the defense industry. It's not something we can ignore anymore. And really we need to talk more openly about its value to vendors and to operators. But first, just to set the scene, let me play you a couple of clips that we heard from at MWC.
Topi Manner, Elisa (35:22):
The geopolitical turmoil that we are leaving currently means that, for example, defense industry will be having a lot of investment need going forward. And I think our industry plays a in that. So that creates growth opportunities. So the world is changing and I think that there will be opportunities we need to capture those opportunities.
Tommi Uitto, Nokia (35:45):
Defense is such a no brainer. I mean if you think about the wireless communication systems that NATO and many armed forces around the world have, they have systems which are optimized for voice and the data capability is comparable to 3G. If they complimented those systems with dual use 4G and 5G technology, they get 10 times the performance for one 10th of the cost. No brainer.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (36:13):
Well, both of those are Finnish companies, so obviously they're facing some serious geopolitical issues at the moment. But should we now be more open about this? Does anybody else see a shift towards alternative non-traditional markets such as defense? Phil, have you got any thoughts about this move?
Phil Mottram, HPE (36:32):
Yeah, sure. So Hewlett Packard Enterprise, we're seeing quite a take up actually in the defense market for our solutions in particular actually private 5G. And there's a couple of use cases that come to mind. One is we have a lot of army bases where they're building networks across the base. And because it's kind of an outdoor widespread environment, it's a good fit for private 5G because obviously they want to keep track of all of the equipment and devices they have on the base. So they're deploying the technology to do that. And then the other use case, we actually offer a private 5G solution in a backpack for a soldier who could step on a battlefield and establish a private 5G network to be able to communicate with colleagues, keep track of colleagues, but also link to drones, try and work out where the enemy is, and also communicate with air forces. So yeah, we're seeing a big take up of this sort of technology in the defense sector.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (37:38):
Yeah, it's interesting. Thank you very much for those examples. Phil and Sanjay, let's come across to you. Are you seeing a similar trends?
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (37:47):
Yeah, I mean on the defense side particularly, I mean you have border security for example, is becoming very, very crucial with the current geopolitical tension. So you could actually use 5G, five Gs, a 5G slicing with security cameras and AI all in combination to automate that and make the border secure from a nation's perspective, a broader security perspective. Yeah,
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (38:27):
Thanks very much, Sanjay. Well, I'm going to stay with you now Sanjay, because I'd also like to ask all of you, we've covered six trends on this show, but is there anything else? Is there anything we've overlooked? Are there any other developments or areas of interest that we should be aware of?
Sanjay Kaul, Circles (38:42):
I mean, we did a survey, we talked about a hundred CEOs, tier one and tier two CEOs, and there was one thing that was on top three agenda points for everyone, and that was to become a TechCo. So this transformation from telco to TechCo was a clear trend. I'm surprised you guys didn't notice it. The second one was clearly creating true digital mobile operators. We talk about cloud in the ran, we talk about 5GSA, but I can tell you our O-S-S-B-S still hasn't evolved. It's still monolithic. And imagine if you are in a world where you're serving Gen Zs or Gen Ds, every consumer is a segment and those traditional OSS basis systems are going to be showstoppers. They're not going to take you forward. So clearly creating that digital mobile operator, my personal belief is for 5G monetization is not happening. I think one of the reasons is that we don't have robust Uberized, OSS BSS that can enable it. Right? So that's kind of second one, the telco to TechCo and creating ideal digital mobile operators holistically.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (40:02):
Great honest assessment there. Thank you, Sanjay. That's great. And Ahmed, let's come across to you. Any other areas there that we should be aware of that have emerged from MWC?
Ahmed Hafez, Deutsche Telekom (40:12):
There's one trend that we missed. There's also NTN non-terrestrial networks. So that includes satellite of also high altitude platforms. And in the previous discussion about defense or public sector is also becoming pretty relevant. So this is also a trend and it's also taking shape.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (40:29):
Yes, spot on. We were aware of that. We were just worried about it wasn't quite at the right volume, but we think it's certainly going that way and this is an area that we are certainly going to be focused on over the next few months as well. Shujaur, let's come across to you for any other trends that we might have seen.
Shujaur Mufti, Red Hat (40:46):
Yeah, I think little bit echoing what Sanja said about OSS BSS, I think I saw the big need with the legacy baggage that operators may have and that is related to virtualization. I think there was a lot of talks related to how to migrate off virtualization to cloud native. So I think what I can see is probably this will be the last year we'll talk about virtualization, hopefully starting next year. I think cloud native is going to be the next foundation and base for the telecom networks.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (41:16):
Thanks very much, Shujaur. That's great. And Phil, do you want to finish us off? Do you want to have some final comments about your overall views of MWC, what else you might've seen?
Phil Mottram, HPE (41:25):
Yeah, sure. It's less of a trend, but I think few people have during just around the overall impression that it's less about the hype associated with technologies now it's more about how are operators really using them. So this kind of back to basics concept to either make more money or save money. So I definitely picked up that trend throughout the show and the meetings that I had.
Guy Daniels, TelecomTV (41:52):
That's a real positive. Thank you very much, Phil. Well we must leave it there. You've given us all plenty to think about. But for now, thank you all so very much indeed for taking part in the after show. Well that was our final program in this year's Spotlight on 5G series links to the daily slice programs are included below. And there are multitude of videos from MWC to watch on our website. No more from Spotlight on 5G this year. But do watch out for our defining six G networks. It's a new series of programs and downloadable reports. And next month also sees the return of our telco as a platform summit. The online event is open for registrations and you can submit questions and take part in our viewer poll. But for now, thank you very much for watching and goodbye.
Please note that video transcripts are provided for reference only – content may vary from the published video or contain inaccuracies.
Panel Discussion
For our final programme in this year’s series of Spotlight on 5G, we hosted a special edition of the After Show. TelecomTV’s Guy Daniels was joined by industry experts to discuss the key trends that emerged from this year’s MWC event in Barcelona. Among the topics covered were:
- 5G monetisation and 5G SA
- Enterprise and vertical markets
- The RAN
- AI and automation
- Network APIs
- Alternative markets
Featuring:
- Ahmed Hafez, VP Technology Strategy, Deutsche Telekom
- Phil Mottram, EVP & GM, HPE Aruba Networking
- Sanjay Kaul, Chief Revenue Officer, Circles
- Shujaur Mufti, Senior Manager, Global Partner Solutions (Telco), Red Hat
Recorded: March 2025
