Ashish Jain, Radisys (00:08):
Hello everyone. Thanks for joining us today at the Radisys booth for a very exciting conversation on the evolution of programmable communications and the new era of connected experiences enabled by AI and programmable 5G networks. My name is Ashish Jain and I'm joined by four very esteemed industry influencers and experts in the communication industry. Al Balasco, SVP of Media Applications at Radisys; Adnan Saleem, CTO of Software and Cloud Solutions at Radisys; Raul from S&P Global, and Kevin Nethercott from CPaas Acceleration Alliance. Thanks for joining me today. So let's kick things off. The communication industry has evolved quite a bit in the last 10 years, and it seems we are at the cusp of pivotal breakthrough into new experiences enabled by maturing technologies like ai, programmable networks and others. The question really is, are we at the pivotal breakthrough and how are telecom operators adjusting to this evolution to leapfrog in this new era? Al, to start from you.

Al Balasco, Radisys (01:18):
Sure. So I think you might expect the typical response to this to be the new technologies, new enablers of, maybe I'll start with a little something a little different. I think the change has been in mindset when Radisys embarked on an initiative to deliver digital services for network operators and digital services from within the network to even the end user experience in their devices. The common refrain that we would hear when we would introduce our new solutions and our direction in this area is, look, we do connectivity and that is in our DNA and there's a lot of hyperscalers. The OTT players, that's their domain. And over the past six years, I think a significant shift is in the mindset of operators in a lot of different ways. One, I wouldn't call it about survival, I would call it about one, how do we thrive and do things differently?

(02:22)
And that's just not only from the services they deliver, but also in how they deliver them. There's a lot more willingness to try things, try fast, succeed or fail fast, learn from that and also be able to do things adjusted business models and how they do these things so they can deliver things out of a cloud rather than worrying about their many quarters or even a year plus initiative to deploy something in the core of their network and then roll it out and when people have bypassed them. So I think that's one of the critical things, kind of that overall concept that's changed

Ashish Jain, Radisys (02:58):
I think. Absolutely. I'll go to Raul quickly. You've been tracking this industry for many years, for 15 plus years, and on this one and Al talked about the mindset, the shift in the mindset. Can you elaborate on that a bit more in terms of what is that mindset shift that you have seen over the years and why do we think that the operators have the opportunity and the mindset to actually leapfrog in this evolution?

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (03:26):
Yeah, I actually think I like very much the way you articulated, there's a significant opportunity for operators. I have been following the CS and digitization of communications for about a decade, and when this started, the main topics were based on how cloud communications vendors were enabling access to the mobile network operators to deliver services. And in that sense, that's an opportunity that telcos were not fully capitalizing on. The talk has been since the industry was turning digital, so for about 15 years, mainly at the application level. What I find very interesting now, and I do think it's a significant milestone that we're about to see, is we're now talking about services that are delivered based on not just the application level but also the network level. So if you look at it from that perspective, first of all they're complimentary, so we should be able to see enhancements, significant enhancements to the user experience. More importantly, since we're talking about the network level, frankly that's the territory for the telcos. So they should be excited, they should be looking at it, and I do think it's definitely an opportunity for them to leapfrog and go past all their direct competition.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (05:09):
So, programmability of communication, especially voice video messaging has been there for past what decade or so, even more than that, and the operator community hasn't really embraced to the level we all expected. What is different this time and where are the barriers and how the industry and technology providers like yourself changing that? You want to start with that?

Kevin Nethercott, CPaaS Acceleration Alliance (05:33):
Sure. So I think one of the biggest differences is that we're at a point now where we have an ecosystem. If you think about the players, particularly the larger CFAs players, they've built everything from the network up. They contracted with the network providers to get their SMS or voice services, but then they created the platform on top of that and then taken that all the way to the enterprise. I think what's now is we have access, as Raul was saying now with telco APIs so that you can have a carrier that can expose at that level. You then have aggregators that can take those services and then you have other Cpaas players or I think even more vertical oriented applications that can take advantage of those platforms and take it to market. So that's why we're excited at the Cpaas Acceleration Alliance is because we have this growing community, this growing ecosystem where the opportunity is so large that and it's happening so quickly that you really have to partner to get to market in a meaningful way. And so I think that's what's really changed, I'd say over the last even 18 to 24 months. That's a game changer for the industry.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (06:45):
Yeah, there's been quite a bit of excitement regarding the open gateway initiative and initiatives like kamara, APIs, Adnan, you want to talk about that? You're chairing the work group around this and what excites you about this and how do you think the communication aspect of the programmability and the network access to the programmability, the convergence of that, what new possibilities do you see and where do you see the operators that are already excited and adopting and launching services around that?

Adnan Saleem, Radisys (07:10):
Right. Yeah, thanks. So I think overall, if we look at it and generally that happens in the technology industry, some new technology comes around, but it takes quite a while for it to be really mature to the point of performance and cost and use cases sometimes many, many, many years takes for some area of technology to come to a point of maturity for commercialization. So we've looked at that now. So one area, as we all kind of know is look at generative ai. I mean the natural language understanding and kind of stuff has been around for a long time, but now there's a huge shift, massive shift in level of maturity in generative ai, especially when it applies to conversational AI capabilities. The other area that's matured to the point now is computer vision or machine vision, video analytics, what we call it, those capabilities have now also matured to the point that they're very readily consumable into creating immersive applications.

(08:04)
The third area that is the programmable networks that you're asking about cmera, I think that's also now finally come that there's operator agreements, there's common APIs and use cases and applications. So when these three very significant areas of technology align and come to maturity almost nearly at the same time, I think that that's driving that very complex applications, which only maybe two years ago would've taken months if not years to develop an application because of the complexity. Now it literally is that evolution of Cpaas we're talking about and we call a Cpaas four-O, that's kind of what mean by a Cpaas four oh that these conversational AI, video processing and network programmable networks, if those are matured and readily available, creating and deploying new applications, very creative and immersive applications is now in a matter of days, if not weeks rather than in relative in terms of quarters or if not years. So I think those three things converging together I think is what's opening up the opportunity. So cmera is one significant part of it, but it's the end user application that's where the monetization will happen if you can create those immersive applications.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (09:14):
Can you share some examples of how Radisys is bringing that to market and kind of applications you're enabling with that? Yeah,

Adnan Saleem, Radisys (09:19):
Sure. I think the three areas that I just mentioned, so I generated AI in terms of conversational intelligence based on generative AI technology and built into the platform. So a designer who's writing an application does not need to be a data scientist. We don't necessarily need people to be data scientists or computer vision experts or architects and engineers at know telecom networks. You have to abstract all that complexity from them. Expose applications in a simplified STK and API matter in some cases, literally no code where you would drag and drop things. So the creativity, the imagination of the application to the developer should not be restricted or impaired by the complexity of the technology that they try to use. So that's what we are bringing in together in a nutshell, if I could put it that way. So computer vision, machine vision, conversational ai, generative ai, and the ability to be able to go and have access to programmable network so you could control the devices and the underlying network below you. Then the application developer can go and create very seemingly very complex application literally in a matter of days. And we have a bunch of them over here we've been demonstrating during MWC this week.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (10:25):
Great generative ai, you can't go wrong with that, right? I mean it's ai, it is on every booth and every conversation and it's maturing and it has been disruptive to a level that it has seen in an option of 500 million plus users using it within 30 days, which is unheard of unseen in any industry. How do you see generative AI playing a role in the telecom network beyond the operational efficiency that it brings in terms of managing the network, but in terms of enabling new experiences and communications? How do you see that playing a role? Al you want to start with that? Sure.

Al Balasco, Radisys (11:02):
Maybe I'll give a couple of real world examples. We have a customer now who's deployed an application in Japan where the service provider is serving theme parks, and when guests enter the theme park, they're greeted with a video assistant essentially, and they interact with that video assistant via natural language interaction. But the additional layer, there's an additional layer which uses ai, which is a video persona. So in their case, they have characters from the park who can respond to questions, and those videos don't have to be prerecorded. They're generated based on AI and using the responses that are triggered by that conversation by the guest. As an example, another application, we have several customers who are rolling out some of this technology we're talking about as Adnan and the other speakers have talked about is it's been available for some time, even generative AI in past couple of years has been evolving and has been accessible to companies with big pockets. What we are providing is the opportunity for telcos to offer their business customer small businesses and mid-size businesses, even sole proprietorships access to this technology that was prohibitively expensive and also very complex for them to use. So today, what we can say a service provider serving that type of customer with our solution can and say as you're using us for connectivity, we can provide you a tool that you can

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (12:44):
Input

Al Balasco, Radisys (12:45):
Your own content, scrape information from your website documents where your customers can call, get information that's very specific to you. This can even reside in the service provider's network, so it's private and it's higher performance. So these are a couple of very practical and interesting applications. One that last one from something that can scale in the market and is repeatable and that first one, one that's very tailored but provides kind of an immersive experience that creates stickiness for the business' customers. So

Ashish Jain, Radisys (13:15):
What do we call it? Conversational AI on the fly.

Al Balasco, Radisys (13:18):
That's a good one.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (13:19):
So Raul and Kevin would love to hear your perspective on that as well, and not just from a technology perspective because technology find its way somehow in the network, but monetization and business models also becomes a block for many technology to come to market. How are you seeing operators rethinking their business models not aligning with the typical way of them serving the voice and data services? So how do you see the business model changing in bringing these new set of services and AI enabled applications to the market?

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (13:53):
Yeah, so one way to look at it is just thinking about the ways in which companies engage with our clients and just explosive growth of digital channels. So in effect, the last mile or the direct interaction is made possible by network operators. So I think that kind of highlights the opportunity for them. Now in terms of that change in mindset, the opportunity right now is to look beyond those services that are largely commodified the voice and SMS messages and add adding value to those existing services or creating new ones. As I was saying before, if we look at the possibilities beyond just the API level, but complimenting what you can do at the API level with the network level, it really opens up many opportunities for enhanced services. And honestly, that's where the interesting margins will be. So they can still deliver voice and SMS, but enhance providing a superior experience to the end user.

(15:16)
And just a couple of examples that come to mind. We've been looking at the growth of digital channels that companies used to interface with our clients that is growing exponentially. If you think about the company that has to deal with all of that, if the interactions are growing exponentially, they won't be able to keep up with their customer service team. So then that's when GI can play a role in the same way as the digital interactions grow. There has also been a significant growth in fraud robos, SMS and GAI will certainly be instrumental to address that.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (16:06):
Kevin, you talk to a lot of operators and one of the charters of Cpaas Acceleration Alliance is to really help them take the next step and guide them through this journey. Where do you see they're struggling in that shift and coming up with business models and what kind of business models align with what they're trying to do?

Kevin Nethercott, CPaaS Acceleration Alliance (16:26):
Yeah, it's been interesting because I think we're at a point now where the technology is essentially rock solid. And so if you go around the hall, all eight of them, you're going to find technology that can deliver. The issue that we're really running into is the soft side of the business. It's new business models. We're selling solutions. We actually have to listen to the customer, understand their needs and then build the solution to match that. And so one of the biggest obstacles to growth for our whole industry is really how do we change the mindset of our sales team, the marketing team, the business models now are usage based, so customer success becomes a critical part of someone's business model. And so one of the things that we're doing at the Alliance is we're actually setting up an academy where we can help train the salespeople or the marketing people within their organization.

(17:30)
We're creating playbooks that we think will take months off of their go-to-market because let's face it, there's a thousands different carriers out there that are going to go and repeat the exact same mistake, right? They're going to get an edict from the board or the C-suite and say, you've got to be in the Cpaas business or roll out network APIs and somebody in the organization's never done it before because none of us have a lot of this, right? And so they're going to go and they're going to spend months researching, they're going to pay analysts to do this and do that and do this, and it takes them months just to get to a point where they can go back to the board and say, I think I have a plan. And so we're working with all of our members to distill the top use cases, the business models that we already know are successful around the world and putting that into, as I mentioned, a playbook where we think that we can save them months in getting to market.

(18:26)
So it is really that soft side that we're seeing the most difficulty. The second piece of advice though, I would share with carriers, if we look at best practices of those telcos that have been successful deploying services, you have to have a system integration strategy. Too often as vendors, we get to the table or as the telco, we get to the table with an enterprise customer that has a real need and that need is today. And if I'm not in a position to listen to their needs, take my technology and turn around a simple POC in the next 48 hours, that opportunity's gone. And so it's really important to invest in outside of your business because that's the differentiator. You're able to deliver exactly what they need. It can be a cost center, it can be a profit center, you can partner with it, but it's an absolutely critical part of the business.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (19:21):
No, I think whether you're spot on that, and I'm seeing that and it's quite refreshing to see both Telefonica and Vodafone talk about that very topic, right? It is about collaboration, it's not about going alone in this and they are opening doors to the technology providers to partner with them and create these solutions. So what does that mean for Radisys? I mean, does that open doors for radisys to play a bigger, more strategic role with operators versus just a technology provider and enabling and creating those applications with them?

Al Balasco, Radisys (19:48):
Yeah, I mean I think that's probably the most critical point. A lot of conversations that start in the context of network APIs and Kamara and other associated tools for developers that can leverage the network is how do I monetize these APIs? And I think that goes down a rat hole because there are a lot of cases in the market where people think of it in a transactional way on APIs, I'm going to monetize call to these calls to these APIs, but we look at it from the top down, it's really about the use cases. That's how you're going to monetize and exploit the value of these APIs. In fact, I think an interesting anecdote that has helped inform how we approach this radisys as part of our digital platform and enabling these applications, a core element of these immersive services is real-time media processing, and we have a media server and over 200 operator networks globally that can be used for these new services for customers.

(20:51)
And our experience in the evolution probably about eight or 10 years ago from physical network functions to software functions and virtualized media servers was we were actually out ahead. We were in many networks, one of the first workloads that moved from a physical network function or even a dedicated intel box to virtualized cloud enabled. So we were able to prove that we could be automated, invoked in the network and then torn down. But beyond that, there were no services on top of that that were enabled yet. So we had that proof point from a technology point of view, but it wasn't until a few years later where service providers actually were rolling out applications on that. So we've learned from that. And I think one other thing that I would add to what Kevin said, a lot of the tools that the Cpaas alliance is working on and Radisys is ourselves contributing to that. We have to look at it from a pre-sales perspective, helping customers understand the value of these uses, the ROI, the TCO for them, but also help them what happens after they deploy it, that customer success helping service providers drive adoption of this so it can succeed in scale in the market.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (22:10):
Absolutely. I think that's absolutely critical for any technology to adopt. And this is even more because this is a new domain for many talking about new domain value. You mentioned about data channels, and I'll come to you Annan for this one, there is a long desired from operators to converge the voice and data. Voice is still their application towards brought both voice and data into the network, but the real experience of converting voice and data hasn't really been seen and that's where the over the top providers have been really benefiting from using that data channels. And there is an emerging technology which brings that together web IMS data channel. Can you elaborate on that and what does that mean for the industry on an impact that operators will have in bringing these, so-called internet 3.0 services to the market, and what kind of applications are you bringing to market and what are the possibilities?

Adnan Saleem, Radisys (23:10):
Yeah, it's actually a good question. I think it's over the last few days when we actually started demonstrating some end-to-end use cases that are built on the concepts of IMS data channel and even prior to the IMS data channel being available in the IMS core network, how that can be delivered today. The interesting thing was a lot of people made the same comment. They said, well, that's IMS what, 15 years ago? What does IMS stand for? IP multimedia system, not an audio only system, multimedia system. So it took this long for the industry to get to the point that it truly becomes multimedia. If you've always had audio, of course on occasion it may be a video call, but there was never that third leg of communication. I think probably the most important one in addition to audio, to have that full interactive immersive experience while you're in any kind of a conversational, whether it's point to point or multi-party calls. So that really does I think finally fulfill the promise of IMS, which was really the idea of I-M-S-I-M-S core networks. So it is pretty interesting and exciting and I think that really, I think as you said, that finally brings the web world into the traditional telecom world because just relying on audio only is not only kind of run this course.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (24:22):
Any thoughts on that?

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (24:25):
Yeah, I think that's actually a great example of bringing those capabilities at the API level and the network level to deliver these innovative services, and that's the opportunity for monetization. I actually think that the combination can be very powerful because if you look at all the digitization that took place over the last 15 years, most of it has been applications over the top. And that's a way to kind of go around. The operators still benefiting from their infrastructure and their services, but if you follow the money, it's not going to the operators. So delivering these services I think is a game changer and it could really enable operators to reposition within the value chain. Actually, if you think about the contrast between an over the top service compared to a service that is leveraged in both the network capabilities and the programmability, it's more powerful, it's more reliable, there's opportunities for security control. So there are many advantages to that. So if you take a step back and just look at the whole contrast in both options, one might ask, well, why would you do over the top instead of using the network capabilities?

Ashish Jain, Radisys (26:06):
This has been tried before. I mean arguably RCS was an attempt to do that and it hasn't been as widely said, what's different this time?

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (26:15):
Yes, that's a very good point. And we've been following this, like I said, for 10 years, we have been cautiously optimistic because of the tremendous potential that it has. And you're right, there have been many missed opportunities that haven't really crystallized. What I can tell you from my perspective is if you look at one year ago here at Mobile work Congress, we heard some announcements, vendors coming out with new services, and today, one year later we already see several operators. They have the services deployed in production. There's a suite of APIs that have all of them, tremendous possibilities. And we have in our company a market monitoring forecast that we revise every two quarters. And we really struggled with the last one because as we were going to publish then all of these announcements started coming through. Honestly, it just made, my manager probably won't like this, but it made the information that we are about to publish just completely obsolete.

(27:34)
It was no longer relevant. Now we're working on an update. So our projection was that after a significant increasing demand for digital services, digital communications during the pandemic where we saw growth of nearly 50% in 20 20, 20 21, then we saw a dip still in the double digit. So still very healthy, but it was around 14%. Our projections then from the last forecast that we did was between 15 and 20%. And we were already taking into consideration that the network APIs were going to play a role here, but our projection was that what was accomplished in a few months and just based on the public information from November, December, February, our expectation was that that could happen in a period of one to two years. So you can imagine now we have a lot of work to do with the stuff.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (28:40):
So I'm going to process this. Did you just say that the telecom industry is moving faster than the analyst can predict?

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (28:51):
Well, as you can expect, we have to rely on a lot of data and we tend to be conservative. But yeah, it took us by surprise and that's a good thing.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (29:07):
It is surprising a lot of us, I mean I was very pleasantly surprised to hear the kind of applications, the mindset, the integration and the collaboration the operators are talking about. I mean honestly, I was hoping I was probably expecting a lot more six G and Spectrum conversations and it has been all about vertical applications, which is so refreshing for this industry to see how the connectivity and the applications are coming together. Talking about that, let's shift a gear a little bit. Inclusivity and accessibility is big on the agenda for many operators. What are you seeing how operators are handing that and kind of applications they're coming out and what data is doing in?

Al Balasco, Radisys (29:52):
Yeah, thanks Ashish. I mean to me, I think this is one of the most interesting topics for how we can help operators both monetize their networks and services and as importantly change society. And there's a lot of dimensions to this one actually here at the conference we launched an application we call Engage Clarity. Engage clarity you can think of as a hearing aid in the telephone network. If you think there's over 2 billion people globally who have some level of hearing loss and hearing loss, as people lose more and more of their hearing over time there tends to be other health impacts to that dementia also, it affects friends and family, not just subscribers. The grandparents tend not to talk to their grandkids. So what this application can do for literally for less than the price of a cup of coffee a month is enable people who otherwise might not be able to comprehend conversations to participate in those conversations.

(31:12)
Another interesting application related to inclusivity is around there's 500 million people globally who either are not mobile users or are on two and 3G networks. So they haven't entered the digital aid. And what Radisys and through our sister company Geo Have done has launched a suite of devices that are cost accessible to this demographic. And one of them as an example, in India, there's a hundred million subscribers that fall into this profile. Geo launched Reliance Geo launched the Geo bar phone. It's a less than $15 device. And while it does provide digital services, its main gateway to the digital world is via voice. So these generative AI applications that we talked about earlier that you typically would think need a display and some type of text interaction or a browser on your smartphone can be accessed by voice and conversation is the lowest common denominator.

(32:20)
Another application in this domain is real time in call language translation. So 80% of businesses around the world who could use this type of technology don't because it's cost prohibitive. The way that this has been done so far typically is you have to hire somebody, you have to hire a hue. And that's expensive. By being able to do this in the network on any phone call, it provides that accessibility. So those 80% of businesses now that don't have this capability can reach more customers. So there's a lot of different aspects to this and I think the key thing from an operator point of view and even Radus from a vendor point of view is the scale of this opportunity, and this is actually the other thing that we see typically in the market is a customer who's looking at might look at a point solution, but that's the Trojan horse to bring other digital services into their network. So something like this, which has that repeatability around the world, is a door opener for other digital services that can be much more tailored and unique to specific regions or markets or even end customers. No,

Ashish Jain, Radisys (33:31):
I think you're very right on that. The way I look at it is voice is still the king. We still talk call and there are 4.3 trillion calls that happen every day. And what this brings to table is making voice the new omnichannel platform to enable new digital services and engage clarity for hearing loss is a great example. I mean there is an unserved community out there that have been ignored and through I expected that they will utilize the hearing aids and other things which they don't. And this solution is really interesting. I would love to take a perspective from Raul and Kevin in a minute on Adam, looking up from outside in here, what do you think of this and how are you seeing the operator feedback throughout in the AT MWC

Al Balasco, Radisys (34:23):
On that? Two things. One, to an operator, there's interest in this application and it fits into whether it's accessibility initiatives or empowering society initiatives. The other interesting thing, anecdote that for me is when people come through here, they say, not only is this interesting for me as a business, but I'd pay for this for my parents, for my grandparents. So it really can be a life-changing application.

Kevin Nethercott, CPaaS Acceleration Alliance (34:53):
Well, I think this ties back to what we were talking about a little bit earlier where technology has improved to a point where it's enabling so many options. And with the APIs that we've been talking about, the developers that are out there, there's so many new things that we can do. And taking that technology now and being able to deliver it in an impactful way to a certain sector, the population that can really use it, it just makes sense. And I think we're going to see more and more of this. Right now we're looking at a lot of horizontal type use cases that are here, but as we look at the next three years, we're going to see this technology really hit the verticals. And so as healthcare adapts this more, you're going to see lots of really interesting use cases that will have similar impact on people's lives and how families can interact and all of those good things. So we applaud you on the progress here in this type of initiative, but I think it's just the beginning of what we'll see from a lot of organizations as we leverage technology in an impactful way for the human race.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (36:04):
You want to add anything to that?

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (36:06):
Yeah, thank you. The accessibility that Al was referring to, it made me think of what we have seen over the past five years in terms of the digitization of the user experience. Before the pandemic, we were perhaps used to talking about digitization, mainly in terms of the younger users, the millennials, evangels. What we saw during the pandemic was that because there was no other option in many cases, but to engage digitally with users, and that includes everyone of every age. So we saw a significant spike in digitization of services like banking, retail, grocery, quick service restaurants. Now what has happened after that is that there was a bit of a bounce back in terms of behavior, consumer behavior, meaning if you were used to the in-person experience, in the case of retail, grocery stores, quick service restaurants, you did go back to that, but the majority of users now will look for a combination of the digital and the in-person experience.

(37:24)
So if you look at the patterns of behavior, and it's more noticeable in some sectors like banking and finance, retail for sure, the e-commerce, what we see now is that those differences between age groups, they're narrowing down. So the digital gap is closing. There are some differences like younger generations will be more prone to using their mobile phone, whereas older generations may be using a computer at home and applications. But in terms of digital channels, the gap is closing. So I am glad to hear that you guys are working some of that, and I don't think digitization is no longer a barrier for adoption.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (38:13):
It's great. I think we are coming towards an end here, and I'm going to ask this to everybody. If you can add your perspective to this, if you're sitting next year talking about a similar topic, what would be your killer application for next year? Good question. I think moving from these

Al Balasco, Radisys (38:34):
Solutions that at least I emphasized in terms of the scale of the opportunity and repeatability to these industry verticals, that industry 4.0 applications that leverage these technologies and the benefits of the network from service availability to security and fraud prevention that are tailored to specific industries that we can take a similar approach cookie cutter, but maybe 80% of the way there. And then provide the tools that allow those businesses or the application developers who are serving certain industries to bring new solutions to market that are tailored for those markets or for specific customers, like Adnan was saying, instead of having these solutions take months or even years, takes weeks or even days. So now move into those tailored application

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (39:28):
Adnan.

Adnan Saleem, Radisys (39:29):
Yeah, thanks. So I think just along those lines, I don't think it's a one killer app or killer app. I don't think it that way. We are expecting that there would be many of them, dozens and dozens. And as time goes forward, there'll be many of them. You're not going to be able to go say, well, there's that one killer app. The thing is to have many killer apps, each one of them that is more usable and more easily deployable, that will create this plethora of applications that will have serve different segments of the industry or serve different verticals in the industry. And they'll be the killer apps within the domain that they're intended to be deployed in. So I think we should think of it not as individual killer apps, but bag a bag full of killer apps. It can be deployed, but the whole key point again is that user technology in a way leverage the thing in a way that you can deploy it quickly. You don't want to go and spend two years on an app and then find out, well, it was Muslim, really all that popular, we want to create it, deploy it in a month, get the user experience within that thing, and then go and transition and then deploy another one, get feedback from that one. So I think there'll be lots of them coming out. And the time to market is I think is a key thing there.

Raúl Castañón, S&P Global Market Intelligence (40:40):
I think I'm thinking in terms of a category, if you will, and what I expect to hear much more from a year from now is trusted communications. So if we talk about the rise of digital channels and digital engagement, I think now we see the need for those interactions to be secure and that's going to be something that falls on the lap of companies, consumers, mobile network operators, regulators. So I do expect to see much more of that in a year. Kevin,

Kevin Nethercott, CPaaS Acceleration Alliance (41:17):
Let's just get rid of the term killer app. There's no such thing, there's no silver bullet. I mean, I look at my own life, I've been trying to get rich my whole life. There's no get rich quick scheme that's going to work. It takes hard work. And so when we keep looking for that killer app, that means we're not starting anything. The killer app is human nature inside of us. It's how hard we work, it's how we grind. That's the killer app. That's what drives success. Clearly we're going to have technology, we're going to have a lot of different use cases, but it's going to be the individuals, it's going to be the organizations, the way we work together as teams. What's going to create the success, the technology levels, the playing field. It's what we do with it now. That's going to be the actual result that we're looking for.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (42:10):
No, I totally agree. I'm glad you said that. The reason I asked for K app is I was hoping somebody will say that, but can we agree on that, the mindset shift, the open programmability and collaboration, the combination of that is going to enable all sort of new possibilities that have been seen next to yet.

Kevin Nethercott, CPaaS Acceleration Alliance (42:30):
Absolutely. So I think with this rollout of telco APIs particularly, we're resetting the game. So we've been playing one game for the last decade. I think there's an opportunity now for a lot of different players all along the stack to reorganize themselves. And so it comes back to how organized are you? What's your business plan? Who are your partners that's going to make the difference here on the success? So that's exciting for me about this show. It's not any single technology, but I think we've hit a point where there's new opportunity for so many new players and that's really what is most exciting.

Ashish Jain, Radisys (43:07):
We are very excited too. Thank you gentlemen for your time. This has been a great, great conversation and I wish you have a great rest of the show.

Thank you.

Alright.