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Xennials started when I reflected on how 
nihilistic and defeatist many Gen Xers appeared  

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to be. But at the same time, I couldn't quite 
see myself in how idealistic many Millennials  

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came across. During my research, I stumbled across 
a great article on this Microgeneration, Xennials,  

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with a contributor who's a psychologist and a 
Xennial himself, and understands this feeling of  

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not really fitting anywhere. I'm Charlotte Kan, 
an inquisitive Xennial and in this episode I'm  

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talking to Michael Alcee, a psychologist 
based in New York. Welcome to Xennials

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Hello Michael.

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Hi Charlotte. Good to see you.

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Thank you so much for joining us. Now, Michael, 
what's your own definition of a Xennial?

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Yeah, and in America we call it an X-ennial, 
but I love Xennial. So we as X-ennials have  

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this interesting blend between the 
analog world and the digital world,  

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and we always are synthesizing them together. I 
love the intro clip of the MTV because we're the  

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MTV generation - starting something new, but also 
recalling the past. You saw the rocket launch,  

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which is sort of the analog and 
the digital revolution beginning.

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Michael, as a psychologist, have 
you noticed or do you feel that  

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there are differences between generations?

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Yeah, I think what's interesting about like we've  

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talked about Xennials is that they're 
really savvy at using the technology,  

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but also really emotionally intelligent with 
all the best of the analog world. And each  

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generation has its own secret sauce. It has its 
own strength, but it also has its own limitation.

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And psychologically, how are we faring or how 
different are we to different generations? Are  

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we more prone to certain ailments or 
diseases? How would you describe it?

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It's funny, I think one of the things that's 
been fascinating psychologically for the  

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generations is that generations are changing 
quicker because technology changes quicker. So  

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you're having these micro generations as 
well. And so I think that it muddies the  

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waters in trying to figure out what generation 
is experiencing this versus that. But overall,  

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I think while we see a lot of 
the progress of each generation,  

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and also I think the dialogue and 
interplay between generations, I mean,  

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you see this in the workplace. You see Gen Xers 
and Xennials and millennials and boomers bringing  

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a lot of different pieces to the table, and I 
think that makes a huge difference. And I think  

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it's how we appreciate that sort of diversity 
of generations. That's really, really helpful,

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Michael, at the moment, we talk a lot about this 
mental health epidemic affecting generation Z in  

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particular, but if you think of Xennials or even 
slightly older GenXers for instance, they were  

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quite prone to problems as well, like depression, 
substance abuse, addictions, et cetera.

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Yeah, it's interesting. I think in a way we become 
a victim of our own success. I think one of the  

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things that the Xennials generation brings in, I 
think you think about Oprah Winfrey for example,  

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and the kind of prevalence of self-help books 
and the openness towards psychotherapy that  

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I think you have an emotional intelligence. I 
think you have more openness to these things,  

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which also means that we notice 
a lot more and self diagnose,  

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sometimes even too much. But I do think that 
there's something really interesting about our  

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culture has gotten much more self-conscious, 
but it's also gotten much more self-aware.

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Do you think that Xennials are maybe the 
first generation when it became okay to be  

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more vulnerable? You mentioned Oprah for 
instance, but if I think of the leaders,  

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the Xennials leaders in power 
today like Macron, Zelensky,  

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et cetera, I have the impression they 
are more open to share their struggles.

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I think that's right on the money. Yeah, 
I think that's right. And I think if you  

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look at Adern for example in New Zealand, her 
showing up in her sweats to console her country  

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and help them get through the lockdown, her 
also declaring that the Tooth Fairy was an  

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essential worker for children. There's a real 
down to earth emotionally intelligent quality  

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to that that's very different. And we see it 
with Zelinsky too, showing up for his people,  

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but also coming on different, going 
throughout the world to be on media,  

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but in a very kind of personal and intimate way. 
I think there's something that's really grown,  

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and I think centennials have ushered that in. And 
I think Oprah really is a big part of that too,  

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because I think she made it really okay and good 
to explore these things both in the nonfiction  

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world and in the fictional world. And so I think 
as a culture, we've become much more emotionally  

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available and like you said, more vulnerable. In 
fact, when Ardern stepped down as prime minister,  

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she said, I'm doing this because I am aware 
that I need to spend time with my family and  

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I'm sensitive. But I also wanted to show people 
that sensitive people can be great leaders.

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Michael, I have mentioned in previous podcasts 
that Generation X, so our older cohort really if  

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we are to be mixed up in the same demographic 
group, tend to be more affected by suicide,  

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unfortunately, as well as addiction, 
et cetera. But to me, Xennials,  

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because they're a cross between Generation 
X and Millennials are a bit more upbeat.  

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Have you felt that throughout your research 
maybe or through your contact with patients?

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Yeah, I think Gen X had a little bit more of the 
cynicism and the disillusionment that got moved,  

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that moved away, that shifted with the 
Xennials. And I think also Xennials saw  

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some of the possibilities to bring these things 
together more. And I think sometimes the Gen  

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X still has maybe a little bit of that boomer 
sense of not being able to have as much hope,  

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right? They sought a fought authority 
and found it was lacking. So I do see  

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that difference there between GenXers. And the 
funny thing as we talk about these generations,  

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what's interesting is how much I think 
these generations impact each other so  

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that individuals take on these characteristics so 
that the generational thing isn't the only factor.

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And what do you think were the 
most significant or maybe even  

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traumatic events for Xennials? Because in a 
previous podcast, I have described the 1990s,  

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the decade where we came of age as a decade, that 
starts well with the fall of the Berlin Wall,  

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lots of hopes, and it ends rather badly. In 
fact, it ends where you are based right now in  

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New York with the 9/11 attacks. So there were very 
significant, defining moments for our generation.

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Yeah, it's interesting. We saw the end of 
the Cold War and we saw this beginning of  

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this war in terror. And you're right, 
I think there's so much that shifts,  

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but I think actually one of the things that 
I think is actually rather hopeful that  

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Xennials bring to the table is their comfort and 
openness to change, and not being scared of that,  

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and actually figuring out how to make something 
interesting out of that and trying to use how you  

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can connect deeply emotionally to people, but 
also how you can use technology to make that  

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better. And so I think Xennials are actually 
not too bothered by the fact that there would  

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be such a dramatic shift to the Cold War, to 
the war and terror to whatever we're in now,  

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because we're used to being able to have to deal 
with the past and the future at the same time.

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And that's possibly why we seem to be 
more resilient than subsequent generations  

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like generations Z, I guess. So this mix of 
positive characteristics that you've mentioned,  

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the fact that Xennials are emotionally 
intelligent, they are ambidextrous,  

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et cetera, in light of those qualities, 
what can Xennials bring to the world?

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Yeah, I think you said it really well 
there that the Xennials also realize  

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we can dig into these things with all of 
the best of what the analog world brought,  

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which was the analog world brought us 
the capacity to slow down, to reflect  

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and really process and not get so distracted 
that we forget about what's really important,  

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what values are really important. But the 
digital world helped us figure out how to  

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do that more productively and efficiently and even 
connect across countries, across different groups,  

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and to really partake of this wonderful diversity 
that we have. I think something that Xennials show  

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is a new way of being integrated psychologically 
and also new ways of putting leadership forward.

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Well, that's a very upbeat and 
positive note. Thank you very much,  

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Michael. Okay, I think it's 
time for the Xennial quiz.

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So Michael, what was your 
favorite album of the nineties?

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Oh, it actually comes back to a little bit before 
the nineties, which is U2's the Joshua Tree.

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Okay. You're not the first person 
here on this podcast to mention U2.

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It's a very interesting album because it looks 
at both the real America and the Mythic America,  

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and it's one of those kinds of 
things that it's spanning both  

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the past and the future in a way 
that only Xennials could love.

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Michael, your favorite film of the decade?

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Oh my gosh. Well, I'm a therapist, so 
it would have to be Good Will Hunting,  

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right? Because Robin Williams' 
performance in that was amazing,  

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and Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. And again, I think 
what they showcase in terms of that vulnerability  

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and that really digging in is exactly what 
I think highlights the Xennial generation.

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Michael, your favorite gadget of the 1990s.

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Oh, this has been interesting. I was 
thinking about that and I thought, well,  

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the Nintendo is a fun gadget, but I still go back 
to the retro old school. They have the old Atari  

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joysticks that you can buy now, and you have all 
these different Atari games. And to me, it's like  

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seeing the best of what digital was starting 
with, but it's so simple. It's almost analog.

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I remember that Atari. I had one too. It was 
incredible at the time when we came across  

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that technology. Now, your favorite book of the 
nineties, and I'm very much aware that I'm opening  

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Pandora's Box here because you are a psychologist, 
so I bet you've read many, many of them.

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I couldn't think of anything because I was 
thinking of something. So I'm a reader of  

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the classics, so I love reading the classics, 
and I was thinking of books that I read and  

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I'm thinking that's what made me think of Oprah's 
Book Club because some of the books that she had,  

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like Edwidge Danticat for example, is 
a good example of an author who wrote  

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some really beautiful books. And I 
think the fact that you had a book  

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that speaks such a deep fictional level, 
but gets at the real nonfictional truth,  

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I think to me, those are the books that 
really spoke to me in the nineties.

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Michael, one word to describe 
the decade, the 1990s.

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This is the hardest. This was the hardest 
question, which I have no answer to other than  

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wow. I mean, I think there was so much between 
the movement from the analog to the digital,  

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the movement into grunge, there was so much 
shifting, and I think it was just like,  

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if you think of this shift from the analog 
to the digital world, it's like, "hang on".

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A big shift indeed. And last but not 
least, one word to describe Xennials.

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Ooh, this is interesting. That's good. Now I 
didn't prep this one. So let's see. What's a  

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good word to describe Xennials? I think the 
word that comes to mind for me is "fluid".

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I like that very much.

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But the ironic thing is they're fluid, 
but they have form, and I think that's  

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the great strength of Xennials is that 
they are able to be flexible and move  

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into a lot of different territories and a lot 
of different aspects, but they're also solid.

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Michael, thank you so much for your great 
contribution to the Xennial podcast. Thank you.

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Thanks for having me, Charlotte. This was fun.

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Absolute pleasure. That was Michael Alcee, clinical psychologist in New York.